So I heard on the radio today that a man is on a 3 million dollar bail because he had sex with 2 of his students, aged 15 and 16 if I remember correctly.  He was a high school teacher.  

So I've always felt that the punishment for having sex with 'minors' was quite severe.  Shouldn't it completely depend on the circumstances?  What if the young lady testified that she in fact was the one who made the advances and wanted nothing more than to hook up with her dreamy teacher?  

What if you are 30 years old and met someone that you found deeply interesting and intensely attractive and found out she was 17?  Should your attraction for her end immediately simply because you found out her age?  

What if you found out she was 16?  

Is it just as bad for a 20 year old to have sex with a 15 year old?  A 14 year old?  

It seems to me, some of this is quite arbitrary.  I teach piano and I have 2 young female students, aged 14 and 15 who are quite attractive for their age.  They are fun to work with.  The type of girls I know I would show interest in if they were closer to my age.  The 14 year old is an atheist and acts very mature for her age and is deeply interested in more mature piano pieces.  The 15 year old is almost 16 and just overall a total sweetheart.  

I understand that many people say that young girls can still be physically attractive, but their maturity levels are not at the same level as their looks usually are, therefore, starting a relationship with a young girl can be very detrimental to her.  But what if she was in love with the older guy and he treated her as perfectly as any guy could treat someone?  

Then you ask yourself the question...what about 11?  12?  Even I, who doesn't get squeamish easily come to a point when I would simply say 'Oh my god, no, that's way too young to even play devils advocate'.  

But I also can't quite pinpoint a reason 'why' I get to that point and immediately declare it's just kind of icky and gross.  

Opinions?  How young is too young?  At what age do you think one should have the right to consensual sex with someone even a few years, if not many years, older than they are?  

In other words, was Hannah Montana / Miley Cyrus any less a cutie when she was 15 / 16 / 17 - Or did she immediately become 'cute' or 'hot' the precise moment she turned 18?  

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Oh my favorite gray area!!!

There's nothing unnatural or immoral about finding young post pubescent girls attractive. In fact, throughout most of history, it would not have been uncommon for humans to reproduce at 13. However, times change and morality evolves. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of modern societies no longer believe most people this age have the intellectual maturity or life skills to provide for children or function as adults. However, we all still have those raging teenage hormones and most people will become sexually active long before they're "adults". Thus, the need for an age of consent.

Laws vary all over the world. In my opinion (if I were to write the laws) 15 is a good general age of consent and 18 is a good line between minor and adult. The difference needs to be specified, because I don't believe anyone under 18 should be legally allowed to participate in pornography or prostitution even in places where it is legal. Cases involving minors with a age gap of less than a few years should be dismissed, and usually are. Cases involving adults in a "position of trust" such as a teacher, coach, guardian, babysitter, etc should be penalized. More experienced adults, particularly those in a position of trust, authority, or a parent-type role, have the ability to easily use coercion, seduction, deception, and improper influences to prey on the naivety and vulnerability of youth. This can have a very negative impact on the mental health of the minor, and needs to be discouraged. In the case of an adult and a minor over the age of consent and outside the age gap who mutually fall for each other and have a healthy relationship, I see no problem.

But wouldn't you have to show that the teacher/guardian, etc used those tactics to simply get laid without any desire to participate in a longer term relationship?  

I think it's quite possible that there are many teacher / student relationships around the country where both parties are feeling a pull towards each other and where both parties probably in fact fantasize about each other.  

I think it's generally considered much worse when a male is caught having sex with a younger female than the other way around.  If I found out my 15 year old son was having sex with one of his attractive teachers, I'd probably be proud of him.  =)  

I suppose I should say 'around the world' , because sex laws in regards to minors I suppose are probably the same throughout the world.  

most women, esp in western societies, r intensely, viscerally jealous of younger women. esp very young women.

No lightening from me. This is absolutely true. However, it could be argued that this is a side of effect of the fact that many men are intensely, viscerally attracted to younger women, especially very young women.

But wouldn't you have to show that the teacher/guardian, etc used those tactics to simply get laid without any desire to participate in a longer term relationship? 

I don't see how that would be difficult to show, particularly if one party is pressing charges for abuse, or if there is a pattern of this behavior with multiple students.

This may quickly turn into a discussion about ethics violations instead of the age of consent, but there are many professional codes of conduct which forbid sex even between adults in relationships where the power is unequal. In some cases, these ethics violations for sexual misconduct can lead to loss of a license to practice, such as in the doctor/patient relationship. People in positions of power have a great responsibility to protect others while within their care. The vulnerability of those in the weaker position can frequently manifest itself in sexual attraction towards those in the position of power, trust, authority, or care. Taking advantage of that vulnerability constitutes an abuse of power that should not be tolerated.

So if teachers find themselves having the warm fuzzies or lust bunnies for a student (barely legal or not), the teacher should at least until he/she is no longer a student before even considering entering into a relationship. If they don't have enough control to do that, they probably shouldn't be in a position of trust, particularly not around minors. Teaching shouldn't be used as way to pick up fuck trophies.

I was discussing systems that are already in place. I support these systems.

i am also curious as to why u think that when a minor *chooses* on their own to have a relationship with someone more experienced that it *can* (good qualifier) lead to the mental illness of the minor.

Could an 8 year old girl *choose* to have a sexual relationship with a 30 year old man? Even if she *chooses* this on her own (which I don't believe she has the mental capacity to do) it is much more likely to cause her issues and regret in the future than a game of "doctor" with the 8 year old neighbor kid would.

I assume you agree that an 8 year old should not be allowed to *choose* to have sex with an adult because of the issues it may cause. The only thing to do now is to quibble over what age the majority of children have this ability to freely choose sex with an adult, and the age under which adults should reject sexual advances from children. Thus, the age of consent.

8 years old!! ;-) come on, tha'ts a straw man.

It's not a straw man, it's a slippery slope. If 14 why not 12? If 12 why not 10? If 10, why not 8?

I have stated that I believe 15 to be a valid age of consent, and I do not believe this would cause mental harm in a healthy relationship between a 15 year old and an adult.

I'm trying to follow the, er, discussion, but hey Kir-- its quite difficult to take a single thing you say seriously, what with all the "u's" and "r's."

Yeah, we're not in the 7th grade here.

The "mental capacity" referred to comes from the indisputable fact that an 8 year old can't possibly understand what sex really is in terms of the potential ramifications. Ramifications such as the immensely strong emotions surrounding sex. Ramifications in terms of what a pregnancy would entail (and yes, occasionally there are fertile 8 year olds). Ramifications in terms of the harm it can cause.

Any study that claims there is no harm in adult-child sexual interaction doesn't pass the snicker test, just as if it had concluded that hummingbirds can't possibly fly. All one has to do is watch the evening news lately with abuse victims coming forward with PTSD and other mental afflictions. The harm may derive from shame based on societal values largely derived from Christian values, but it's still harm.

You may not know it, but if you claim that there's no harm in adult-child sexual relations, you're not being taken seriously, though I invite all of your supporters to come forward now.

Studies are based on definitions and on assumptions. If a peer-reviewed, replicated study told me something contrary to fact, then the problem is in the definitions and assumptions. After all, the problem with bad logic isn't that you can't conclude anything from it, it's that you CAN conclude anything from it.

You can't seriously be arguing that there's no harm in luring a child into an act which has the kind of potential repercussions in terms of physical and mental health that sex has. If you are, you can't be very sophisticated when it comes to sex, and believe me studies do not make one sophisticated in terms of sex.

When you write " makes no sense to take a stance against the discriminated behavior instead of against society," you more or less admit that the behavior is harmful in the societal context. Condemnation of the behavior within that context would seem reasonable. This is why we hold offenders responsible even if we grant the lack of inherent harm.

Not all the negative ramifications derive from guilt. Some of them derive from the naivete of the child as well. We can lay a good deal of it at religion's door, but not all of it.


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