Man of the Verge of Self Realiation Instead Turns to God

Saw this on the Onion this morning and enjoyed it, so I thought I'd share.  Granted it is satire, but I was wondering your serious thoughts on the subject matter any way.

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Bellisima, I am not disagreeing with you, as I can see where you're going with this, and I'd like to see it developed further - rather than a disagreement, just consider this more like an addendum:

RE: "this IS what the Bible says" - this is what four anonymous writers, who never met Yeshua, who weren't there when he lived - IF he ever did - said.

Methinks Strega and Simon et al could be imbibing draughts of vintage in old London town. It is only an hour away and was home for 5 years. I will hopefully catch ‘em  next trip.

I realize it's an embarrassment to Irish heritage, but he had a beer, while she had a glass of water - I know, water and witches don't usually mix, but I'm guessing she's built up a tolerance.

Ever meet an Irish Atheist (from the land of Catholics) that does not drink alcohol? Well, only one single malt on the Hitchens birthday! Cheers!

If it wasn't for the Valium I would be on drugs!!

"If you do not then you are your own version of a Christian which is not a Christian at all."

I don't agree with this, Belle. I think if you had ended it with something like "which is not the modern, culturally accepted definition of Christianity," then I would agree. The generally accepted definition of course recognizes Jesus as a sacrificial offering and rising from the dead, but the particulars as has already been noted can differ greatly. Also, there is always the possibility of something akin to a philosophical Christian. Thomas Jefferson once described himself as a sect unto himself and his edited version of the New Testament shows his appreciation for the teachings of Jesus, because seriously? no one would waste their time unless they really cared.

If Barry wants to call himself a Christian, I'm not going to tell him he's not. In the same way that I've told others that only they can know what they do or don't believe in trying to determine if they are or aren't an atheist, I feel the same about whether they are or aren't an adherent to any religion. But I do admit, I am curious after Barry's time here (what 8 months?) if his beliefs changed and in what way. Although, I'd hardly blame him for not putting it out here publicly.

@ Belle and Sagacious: Would I call myself a Christian?  Yes, but not in the traditional sense of what is considered Christian.  In fact, most of the time when it is discovered that I claim to be a follower of Jesus, I often get a perplexed look from others along with the question: "You're Christian?"  Some have even said they would have pegged me for a Buddhist or something along those lines.  The reason?  I am not a rigid ass-bag of religious doctrine, and that is because I choose to do the dangerous thing and ask questions. What makes me a Christian is not religious doctrine or church on a Sunday morning; I take to heart the teachings of Jesus even though they are difficult and I try to pursue life with a certain amount of humility and large dose of compassion.

The only reason why I choose the label "Christian" is because I find no other way to define it.  I accept Jesus as who the Bible claims him to be, but how that is formulated or conveyed is another matter considering that first and foremost the Bible is a book of literature - not a dictation that fell from the sky.  Quite simply, how I see and view Jesus is a very personal matter - one forged not because someone told me so, but because of what I have experienced on my own in my own life.  It does not make life easier or prettier than anyone else's, it just makes it what it is to me.  I don't buy the lines that most Christians sell because they are horribly overdone and just rubbish.  I only buy what I observe, experience, and interpret.  This allows for a great deal of growth in my life, and now liberated, can flow unrestricted without fear.

Even with all this said, though, it fails to convey what I am and what I am accurately trying to say.

Most Christian I know tend not to label themselves as religious or part of a cult. They all have one thing in common though. That is, they all profess to have a personal relationship with Jesus which they claim is different to the relationships that other Chistians have with Jesus.....except that it is not. It's the same room you live in, whatever color you paint it.

Do you believe you will get a second life for accepting Jesus and become immortal? Yes or No as an answer will convey it accurately.

To me, what you is not a yes or no question.  More importantly, to say yes is to convey a sense of eschewing personal responsibility for ones own actions simply because I can say "I believe in Jesus."  It's a lot more complicated than this, but to humor the question, I would like to say yes, but such a yes does not mean I am trying to escape accountability - I am accountable.

As of the introduction to the question: of course a lot of Christians say such things.  A number say such things because it makes them feel important and superior to others, which is of course, a noticeable chink in the armor (doctrine) they like to wear.  However, some are genuine in their remarks because ultimately they are right - their relationship is different from those that they lump themselves in with because of the uniqueness of their own life.  It does not make them better than any other individual, just different.


I understand that Barry but do you believe you will have a second life with Jesus because you have accepted him as your God? I mean if you found out tomorrow that there was no afterlife would your faith still be so important to you. Surely you can answer “Yes, I believe in the promise of eternal life” or not? It is a core belief that cannot be interpreted any other way no matter what else you believe about God. I cannot see how you do not have a straightforward answer.  I am asking a sincere question even if it sounds rather blunt.

BTW how could you escape accountability if you said “Yes”? Do you not expect to be judged by Jesus on the day of reckoning?

Yes, I believe in the promise of eternal life.  However, I do not think it is a second life.  The eternal life can be had in the here and now, but it requires more than a simple yes.  Also, Jesus is not my god.  He is my teacher - the one who leads me to the path of salvation, which is, as I understand it, God.

Thus, if I found out tomorrow that there was no after life, my faith would still be important to me because of what I have discovered through the actualization of salvation in my own life - the knowledge, acceptance, and realization through words and deeds as to who I genuinely am as a person.

BTW how could you escape accountability if you said “Yes”? Do you not expect to be judged by Jesus on the day of reckoning?

Most Christian people who answer yes to your question on eternal life, will also answer yes to your question above.  Jesus wipes the slate clean and so they have to answer to no one simply on the basis of declaring that they believe in Jesus.  It is a sad unhealthy affair, but that is the reality they choose to accept because it is easier than having to really deal with their problems.

By the way, I am not satisfied with any of my answers, which surprisingly is not unusual.

I reiterate, even more emphatically, there is definitely hope for you! You seem to have a keen, analytical mind, and that is a good start on the road to reason - I didn't say atheism - I said, reason.

And by this, do you mean to say that you consider me irrational?  At least, at this point?  No offense taken in your remarks - just curious.  I consider myself a well-reasoned individual, though like everyone can have irrational moments.


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