Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Diane on March 8, 2013 at 9:24pm

I can hardly believe this, but I once wrote a thesis entitled, "The Acquisition of Faith: A Phenomenological Study of Spiritual Crisis, Transcendence, and Recovery from Addiction."  Part of what I was trying to understand was what happened to that 5%.  How do they recover when so many others can't?  

The conclusion I came to was that, whatever the means, there has to be a fundamental and profound shift in thinking.  Something monumental has to happen in the psyche of the addict or alcoholic to facilitate change.  That's a huge, vague understatement, but it's crucial for lasting recovery.  Sometimes AA or NA attendance can help to bring about that change.

I agree, by the way, that AA/NA are very cult-like.  I was actually at a meeting the other night, helping my friend to celebrate 25 years in recovery.  Looking at it as an outsider, it is scary.  I don't think there are sinister intentions behind the 12-step fellowships, but they do seem to trap many people's psyches at a point beyond which they don't grow as individuals.  

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Permalink Reply by Ezra T. Klatt on March 14, 2013 at 5:03pm

Diane, I was going to add my 2 cents, but I think you said it all with:

The conclusion I came to was that, whatever the means, there has to be a fundamental and profound shift in thinking.  Something monumental has to happen in the psyche of the addict or alcoholic to facilitate change.  That's a huge, vague understatement, but it's crucial for lasting recovery.  Sometimes AA or NA attendance can help to bring about that change.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Humphrey on March 18, 2013 at 8:05am

I agree.  I briefly attended AA 20 years ago because others convinced me that I was an alcoholic.  I wasn't and am not.  (Whatever that means).  I left the AA meetings because I was being relentlessly proselytized.  I have never looked back.  

By the way, I seem to recall that the way people in AA convinced me (for a while) that I was alcoholic was to answer the question--Has drinking ever caused you a problem?--Well, duh, yes.   I had gotten drunk and created several problems for myself.    That all by itself does not make you an alcoholic.  I could and did stop drinking with no insatiable cravings.  Quitting was, for me, just a decision which was for me so easy.

I do recognize that there are those for whom quitting is not so simple.

The religion aspect of AA was just an obstacle I could not surmount without renouncing my core being.

 

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Permalink Reply by Diane on March 18, 2013 at 12:15pm

I stopped going to meetings many, many years ago.  Except for during 10 days in Barcelona in 2010 during which I may have ingested a little THC, I have been straight as a rail since 1988.  I would not meet the criteria to be diagnosed with any kind of substance use disorder, and I wonder whether or not I actually have one.  I didn't need a higher power.  Mostly what I needed to do when I stopped partying excessively at 23 was to grow up and gain some serious coping, social, and work skills.  

It doesn't really matter because I have chosen to live my life as I do.  I also realize that is not as easy for many.  However, I am very grateful for AA/NA because they certainly did help me at the beginning.

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Permalink Reply by Ezra T. Klatt on March 14, 2013 at 5:02pm

I can't speak the veracity of that statistic, but anecdotally I can believe that the success rate is very low, In AA meeting you can hear many talk about "planning their relapses." I am a firm believer that recovery from addiction needs much more than a quasi spiritual belief in a higher power. A support group format is great, but you need to get medical help for your addiction as well.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on March 7, 2013 at 7:48pm

I once attended a few AlAnon meetings with what now is an ex-girlfriend, and had an opportunity to familiarize myself with their basic format. Granted, the program began decades ago when religion was more relevant than it is now, and the "Higher Power" initially referred to "god," but I believe the purpose of using the concept of a Higher Power lies in the assumption - usually quite accurate - that the alcoholic or drug abuser has repeatedly tried quitting on their own and found themselves unable to do so.

But I agree that one should never stop searching for that same power within yourself - once you realize that there simply IS no other power out there, that leaves the only possible platitude: "If it's to be, it's up to me."

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Permalink Reply by Ilse on March 7, 2013 at 11:52pm

archaeopteryx, It's true that people repeatedly try quitting before they finally quit (if quitting is the goal). But, I'm not getting your connection between a higher power and community reinforcement. In the case of the higher power, one must hand their "life and will" over to this entity (even if that entity is G(roup) O(f) D(runks). Community reinforcement doesn't require one to hand over their life and will. It's simply support and accountability. If that's all AA provided, I'd be all for it. But along with the support comes all kinds of woo and cognitive dissonance.

Here's another statistic: Among people involved in various alcohol programs, including AA, and including a control group of quitters who did not join a program at all, AA members were more likely to binge relapse -- not just relapse, but binge relapse.

It seems to me that teaching people that they have a disease, that they are insane, have no power to manage their own lives, and, finally, the dangerous, bogus notion that they need to "hit bottom" before they can get well, leads to this tendency to binge relapse, as opposed to recognizing a relapse from a broader perspective -- like a detour.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on March 8, 2013 at 3:09am

First of all, gotta say, love your acronym, "G(roup) O(f) D(runks)," very clever!

Secondly, I don't know the stats on AA, so I don't really know the relapse rates, I was simply trying to explain "higher power" from a possibly different perspective than a deity.

I certainly wouldn't say these people are insane by any means (though some may well be), but I do believe there are mental issues involved with any addiction, whether it's to alcohol, drugs, tobacco, food, or sex.

Let me ask you this, Ilse - and I ask this sincerely, not sarcastically - what would you suggest as an approach?

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Permalink Reply by Ilse on March 8, 2013 at 3:42am

archaeopteryx, G.O.D. (group of drunks) isn't my acronym; it's AA's. They say that if you don't believe in God, and can't turn your life and will over to HIM, then you can use the group as your higher power. 

Regarding Higher Power in AA, they say that it can be anything, if you don't believe in god: lightening, your cat, a tree in your yard, a doorknob... The thing is that whatever your higher power is, it must still operate the same way as God. It should be able to restore you to sanity. You must be able to trust it with your life and will. It must have a will for you. In other words, a rose by any other name..,

I believe that addiction falls very well within the spectrum of normal human behavior, and there's nothing crazy about it. But, I agree that there are many issues involved with it, and there is no one answer or cause. It's so complex.

It's hard for me to answer your question about what I'd suggest as an approach, because I'm not sure that there is any one approach that works for everyone. Addiction is complex. There are a few approaches that have been proven to be effective in helping people overcome addiction. In fact, there is a study showing that AA and 12 Step rank 37th and 38th in effectiveness among 40-some options. The ones that rank in the top are things like community reinforcement, CBT, brief interventions, motivational interviewing. Some of the approaches that beat AA are psychedelic therapy, hypnosis, and nothing at all. 

While I don't have one single program I'd suggest for everyone, I can say that infusing your life with things that are meaningful to you. All the top approaches tend to help clarify that. 

If I were to recommend a program, I'd recommend SMART Recovery without hesitation.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on March 8, 2013 at 1:40pm

@Ilse - sorry I took so long to get back to you, but I decided to have a computer-free evening, just to see how it felt.

I didn't mean to put you on the spot when I asked your opinion, I would never expect anyone to have THE solution, but I did want to know your opinion, as you seem to be far more knowledgeable in this area than I (as clearly evidenced by the G.O.D. example).

Personally, my only addiction (except for possibly computer usage) is to nicotine - and don't ever believe for a second that it doesn't qualify as a drug - and I am in a constant daily struggle to walk away from it, so far, without success. If I thought for an instant that turning my life over to a doorknob would help in the least, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Interestingly, from a psychological point of view, the ones you've ranked as being in the top, at first glance, seem to be ones that cults also often use for indoctrination and membership retention, suggesting they offer a double-edged sword, depending on your use of them. Fascinating.

Thanks for your input.

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Permalink Reply by Strega on March 8, 2013 at 2:16pm

Arch, having a computer free evening....

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on March 8, 2013 at 5:25pm

As usual, Strega --

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