***[Moderator Note] Pahu is no longer a member of Think Atheist.  If you would like to add your thoughts to this thread, that is your prerogative; however, the original poster is not able to respond.[/Moderator Note]***

When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:

 

1. The universe exists.

2. The universe had a beginning.

3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.

4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.

5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.

6. Nothing comes from nothing by any natural cause.

7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.

8. Life exists.

9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).

10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.

11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.

 

Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.

 

The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.

 

[color=blue][i]“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes”[/color][/i] [[url=http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/]From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown[/url]]

 

Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.

 

Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.

 

The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

 

If you are interested in more detailed proof, read, [i]“Evidence that Demands a Verdict”[/i] by Josh McDowell.

 

[[url=http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000005147#] From “Reincarnation in the Bible?” [/url]]

 

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Replies to This Discussion

First, we only know what we can observe. If we can't see unknown particles taking place in living organisms, we can only assume they don't exist. If you see some anomalies in the organism, then you can postulate that there may be unknown particles at work. And even if there are unknown particles in the organism, that still doesn't mean that there is any supernatural phenomenon (which is what you sounded as if you were going to say, if not, no worries).

Two, only recently have we noticed a few quantum effects taking place in organisms. As far as we can tell, the majority of life is not operating on, or relying on quantum effects. Yes, consciousness may operate on a more complex level than was previously thought, but so far that has as much proof as... ghosts... unicorn... fairies. The only difference is that this may be a little more rational.

Three, to quote sean "An atom is not a living organism, but if you get enough atoms together you create molecules, and enough molecules together form compounds, and the combination of compounds ultimately makes for an environment that can spring forth life. In essence, life does spring from non-living matter." There is nothing inherently illogical or wrong about this statement. It is probably correct.

Roger Penrose is a strong proponent of quantum entanglement occuring in the axioms of the neurons and this giving rise to consciousness. Moreover it has been postulated that the quantum information stored is never destroyed and may merge with the quantum fields in the fabric of space time.

 

Observation: recent experiments suggest the twins defy the odds relative to testing  their remote communication abilities. However there are two school of thought that tries to explain this. However the natural explanation does not explain sympathy trauma and pains at a distance. (spooky action at a distance with living creatures as oppose to particles!)

That's so not what the LHC research is about
Your list was pretty good, until number 2. You should cite your source. Everything after that is pretty much wrong.

My thoughts exactly.

I feel dumber having read that. :(

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Like - lol

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God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

 

@ Pahu - Then why does he have to act like such an A-hole?

Just so you know, this message board doesn't support those tags (url, i, color, etc.).  Oh, and I found this: http://www.voy.com/187651/378.html.  The writing about halfway down seems familiar.

 

 Our perspective of reality is close to that of an amoeba. Right now you are being bombarded with neutrinos, a huge spectrum of electromagnetic waves and probably a few things we haven't been able to observe, like dark matter.  I always picture that if we could see the full spectrum of EM waves, the fillings in my head would make it look like a strobe light.  Our senses are only slightly better than the amoeba at comprehending physical reality, if it even exists. We cannot see what is happening at the Planck length, which by the way a recent experiment suggests that it may be a LOT smaller than we think.We don't even know what time is made of. To use this lack of perception to claim that there must be a god to explain what we do perceive is simple human ignorance. When I hear drivel like this I imagine an amoeba living in his little scum pond with his little amoeba bible, preaching about the amoeba god in the heaven outside of the pond in who's image they are all created.  I guess you could say I have a little bit of a low opinion of stupid $*&k%ng earthlings.  

One question (assuming you haven't just dropped a troll net and disappeared): Why did you publish this here? Do you honestly believe that even one person in TA would say, "Oh wow. He's proved it! God actually exists. Where's the nearest church?"
What? You didn't immediately sign up? ;)
I immediately donated all my worldly possessions after reading the OP's post. I mean, his "evidence" was overwhelming! The guy is a troll plain and simple.

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