***[Moderator Note] Pahu is no longer a member of Think Atheist.  If you would like to add your thoughts to this thread, that is your prerogative; however, the original poster is not able to respond.[/Moderator Note]***

When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:


1. The universe exists.

2. The universe had a beginning.

3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.

4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.

5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.

6. Nothing comes from nothing by any natural cause.

7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.

8. Life exists.

9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).

10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.

11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.


Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.


The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.


[color=blue][i]“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes”[/color][/i] [[url=http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/]From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown[/url]]


Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.


Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.


The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.


If you are interested in more detailed proof, read, [i]“Evidence that Demands a Verdict”[/i] by Josh McDowell.


[[url=http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000005147#] From “Reincarnation in the Bible?” [/url]]


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Your list was pretty good, until number 2. You should cite your source. Everything after that is pretty much wrong.

My thoughts exactly.

I feel dumber having read that. :(


Like - lol


God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.


@ Pahu - Then why does he have to act like such an A-hole?

Just so you know, this message board doesn't support those tags (url, i, color, etc.).  Oh, and I found this: http://www.voy.com/187651/378.html.  The writing about halfway down seems familiar.


 Our perspective of reality is close to that of an amoeba. Right now you are being bombarded with neutrinos, a huge spectrum of electromagnetic waves and probably a few things we haven't been able to observe, like dark matter.  I always picture that if we could see the full spectrum of EM waves, the fillings in my head would make it look like a strobe light.  Our senses are only slightly better than the amoeba at comprehending physical reality, if it even exists. We cannot see what is happening at the Planck length, which by the way a recent experiment suggests that it may be a LOT smaller than we think.We don't even know what time is made of. To use this lack of perception to claim that there must be a god to explain what we do perceive is simple human ignorance. When I hear drivel like this I imagine an amoeba living in his little scum pond with his little amoeba bible, preaching about the amoeba god in the heaven outside of the pond in who's image they are all created.  I guess you could say I have a little bit of a low opinion of stupid $*&k%ng earthlings.  

One question (assuming you haven't just dropped a troll net and disappeared): Why did you publish this here? Do you honestly believe that even one person in TA would say, "Oh wow. He's proved it! God actually exists. Where's the nearest church?"
What? You didn't immediately sign up? ;)
I immediately donated all my worldly possessions after reading the OP's post. I mean, his "evidence" was overwhelming! The guy is a troll plain and simple.

Your "proofs" of "god" are a logical fallacy. You neglected to answer the question of what caused the first cause. If "god" was not a caused event, and has simply always been, then he/she/it cannot exist, as shown by the rule of cause and effect that you presented in your post.

If "god" was the effect of a cause, then he/she/it would no longer be god.



They just 'redefine' the term 'God' to mean 'An uncaused cause' 


Yeah , we all understand that to be an absurd argument , but they don't ... 

No need to address that if causality as we know it was created.

"The the things that are were created from that which does not appear" (sic)


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