This is horribly sad event but the question must be ask: With the church doctrine that says suicide is an unredeemable sin, how do Christians deal with that fact?

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They paint such a glorious view of 'heaven' that unless they also banned suicide, I imagine every Christian ought to want to commit suicide to get there more quickly.  Then there's all that bullshit that says that a suicide cadaver must not be buried in 'hallowed ground".  At one stage, 'hallowed ground" was also refused as a burial site for babies who had died before being baptised.  These were considered to be in "Limbo" and not headed for 'heaven' but rather had to await the final 'judgement day'.  Can you imagine the distraught bereaved mothers having to deal with that too?

Well I don't think at a gut level they really DO believe it or they'd celebrate at funerals and being told you had a terminal illness would be cause for cartwheels down the hall.

Considering "the Lord," if he ever lived, is worm-food now, there's probably more truth to that than you realize --

Warren wants women and homosexuals to keep their places in society: at the back of the bus. No abortion rights, no marriage equality. His views regarding embryonic stem-cell research are murderous: end it. And biology classrooms in public schools? He wants them teaching your kids and mine that God made life on earth using magic.

Rick Warren is beneath contempt. I abhor everything he stands for.

And would anyone care to take a guess what sort of "mental illness" his son killed himself over having?

I in no way think anyone deserves to lose a child. It is horrific.  I am just looking at the dilemma they must deal with as Christians.

@Gallup's Mirror: Rick Warren is no different than any other public pastor. They all stand for the same bullshit.

Rick Warren is the leader of the nation's 8th-largest mega-church, author of books that have sold over 30 million copies, and a much sought-after public speaker on social and political issues. He hosted John McCain and Barack Obama at his church during the 2008 Presidential election, backed the ban on marriage equality in California during the same year, and was invited to give the invocation at Obama's inauguration in 2009.

They might all stand for the same bullshit, but Warren gets to stand next to the most powerful men in the world while he stands for his bullshit. That's what makes him different from other public pastors.

But they can still be good men at heart. You make an excellent point - really got me thinking...but if they truly have bought into the delusion and honestly think that they are right, they can still be good people at heart and hardly deserve to lose a child to such tragedy, don't you think?

I think some of them are knowingly snake oil salesmen, and are bad men as a result. The ones who genuinely believe in snake oil are still selling it to millions of others, and are doing great harm as a result.

But Warren isn't just selling snake oil, he pinches noses, and forces it down the gullets of people who make it extremely clear they do not want to take it:  gays, women who want abortions, evolutionary biologists, and the people who are going to suffer or die as a result of the medical research he has delayed. 

A good man doesn't want the state to force his religious views on those who do not believe in them. That's what bad men want. That's why I think Rick Warren and others like him are bad men.

By the way, I didn't say Warren deserved to lose his son. I said he is beneath contempt and I abhor everything he stands for: religious totalitarianism. I wish Mathew Warren was still alive, not for his father's sake, but for his own sake.

Belle that is not true.  If you kill yourself it doesn't matter what you confessed to be, it is the only unforgivable sin.


There's no such thing as sin.

@Richmond - presumably it's unforgivable because once you are dead, it's a bit hard to get to a confessional.

Belle, there is an unforgivable sin. I don't know if you believe in god or not, but if you do not, you are hell bound according to the christian faith.

In the Catholic church suicide IS the unforgivable sin.

  Pastor Warren says he was aware of his son's depression.  That begs the question: did he pray for his son?  And if so, did God not think Warren deserving of having his prayers granted?  Not very cool of The Lord, considering how much money Rick has raised for him, and the spectacular cathedral he built for him.

   I have sympathy for anyone, including Rick Warren, who loses his child that way.  But I have no respect for him if he does not admit that God either abandoned him or doesn't exist.  My guess, though, is that he will rationalize this tragedy as God's wisdom. I despise any father who says that, because it implies his son deserved his fate.  


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