This is horribly sad event but the question must be ask: With the church doctrine that says suicide is an unredeemable sin, how do Christians deal with that fact?

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They paint such a glorious view of 'heaven' that unless they also banned suicide, I imagine every Christian ought to want to commit suicide to get there more quickly.  Then there's all that bullshit that says that a suicide cadaver must not be buried in 'hallowed ground".  At one stage, 'hallowed ground" was also refused as a burial site for babies who had died before being baptised.  These were considered to be in "Limbo" and not headed for 'heaven' but rather had to await the final 'judgement day'.  Can you imagine the distraught bereaved mothers having to deal with that too?

Well I don't think at a gut level they really DO believe it or they'd celebrate at funerals and being told you had a terminal illness would be cause for cartwheels down the hall.

This is very sad to me. I've always admired Rick Warren and from everything I've heard of him he is a good man. I'm very sad for his family. Most Christians would say that one cannot "lose their salvation." If his son ever confessed to be a believer (even as a child) it is felt that he is now "with the Lord."

Considering "the Lord," if he ever lived, is worm-food now, there's probably more truth to that than you realize --

Warren wants women and homosexuals to keep their places in society: at the back of the bus. No abortion rights, no marriage equality. His views regarding embryonic stem-cell research are murderous: end it. And biology classrooms in public schools? He wants them teaching your kids and mine that God made life on earth using magic.

Rick Warren is beneath contempt. I abhor everything he stands for.

And would anyone care to take a guess what sort of "mental illness" his son killed himself over having?

@Gallup's Mirror: Rick Warren is no different than any other public pastor. They all stand for the same bullshit. But they can still be good men at heart. You make an excellent point - really got me thinking...but if they truly have bought into the delusion and honestly think that they are right, they can still be good people at heart and hardly deserve to lose a child to such tragedy, don't you think?

I in no way think anyone deserves to lose a child. It is horrific.  I am just looking at the dilemma they must deal with as Christians.

@Gallup's Mirror: Rick Warren is no different than any other public pastor. They all stand for the same bullshit.

Rick Warren is the leader of the nation's 8th-largest mega-church, author of books that have sold over 30 million copies, and a much sought-after public speaker on social and political issues. He hosted John McCain and Barack Obama at his church during the 2008 Presidential election, backed the ban on marriage equality in California during the same year, and was invited to give the invocation at Obama's inauguration in 2009.

They might all stand for the same bullshit, but Warren gets to stand next to the most powerful men in the world while he stands for his bullshit. That's what makes him different from other public pastors.

But they can still be good men at heart. You make an excellent point - really got me thinking...but if they truly have bought into the delusion and honestly think that they are right, they can still be good people at heart and hardly deserve to lose a child to such tragedy, don't you think?

I think some of them are knowingly snake oil salesmen, and are bad men as a result. The ones who genuinely believe in snake oil are still selling it to millions of others, and are doing great harm as a result.

But Warren isn't just selling snake oil, he pinches noses, and forces it down the gullets of people who make it extremely clear they do not want to take it:  gays, women who want abortions, evolutionary biologists, and the people who are going to suffer or die as a result of the medical research he has delayed. 

A good man doesn't want the state to force his religious views on those who do not believe in them. That's what bad men want. That's why I think Rick Warren and others like him are bad men.

By the way, I didn't say Warren deserved to lose his son. I said he is beneath contempt and I abhor everything he stands for: religious totalitarianism. I wish Mathew Warren was still alive, not for his father's sake, but for his own sake.

Ok Gallup I get you...that makes sense to me. Wow. Lots the think about there. I have only been an Atheist a very very short time and I think I still have a lot of religion left in me and tend to want to defend it for sake of tolerance and amicable exchange, but you are right...One of the themes of own my life has been submission. I'm still trying to break out of the mindset that men like him have made me believe about myself. It's not an easy process...I still want to defend these men. I don't know why. Maybe posts like yours are the way to freedom. Thanks for sharing.

Belle that is not true.  If you kill yourself it doesn't matter what you confessed to be, it is the only unforgivable sin.

@Richmond:

There's no such thing as sin.

@Richmond - presumably it's unforgivable because once you are dead, it's a bit hard to get to a confessional.

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