I have found myself in discussion mode with the elders of our local LDS church without realizing the implications of such an agreement. Basically while attending a service with my husband, who is a member, (I love him and want to spend time with him while he is home as he works away from home, even if that means attending church), before we could leave after the service we were caught by the eager elders. Of course they had to ask if we were both members...grrr, why, why do they have to go there...and because I have this problem, (I can't be dishonest), I of course said that I was not. They asked if I would mind having them over to talk about stuff and me not liking conflict or confrontation or negativity said I would not mind. I didn't realize that this would begin a formal schedule of something they have been thoroughly trained for. I however only know how I feel, but like singing in front of strangers, when confronted with the questions I close up and can't speak the logic I believe. After one evening of apparently "The 1st Lesson" they had scheduled a second in less than a week from then, which I had to reschedule and haven't yet because I don't feel ready to do so.
How can I respond to their planned/taught questions respectfully and honestly so that they cannot deny my rational thinking and conclusions I have come to? I am not trying to offend or start anything that may get my husband treated negatively.
I may edit this later if I find a better way to bring my question to the "support group" however for now, I just really want some help.
I told the elders I don't know if I'll want to reschedule the discussions, but that in truth, I'm not ready for regular discussions/lessons. I said I am actively investigating/building the foundation for what I believe, but that at this point any questions I have, I can just go to my husband and I thanked them. They thanked me for my honesty and then invited me to 'continue to please pray to God and ask ....and blah blah blah' and promised me an answer that its true soon and then said I should totally have them back over for dinner soon. I wasn't surprised, but glad to have been able to say what I needed. I will be strong and honest with them, and anyone, anytime my beliefs are questioned.
Thank you for your help. I am grateful to have a safe place where I can ask for it.
I agree 100% with Mabel, they are very persistant and they don't take NO for an answer. They start by meeting at your home twice per week to talk about the Mormon book and how Jesus went to America, they keep you entertained with their delusions and before you know it you are inside a pool holding your breath while getting baptized.
Believe me they were aware that you were not a member before they approached you. They keep marriage and family records religiously (that's why they are such a good source for genealogy study). Basically the pastor had you profiled and now they made it their mission to get you baptized. They won't stop so easily.
As Trevor said you won't accomplish much by meeting with them, the only thing that will happen is that you will get deeper and deeper.
Talk it out with your husband, and be prepared for when they start pressuring him too.Mormons are very into "marry your own kind ONLY" and how your marriage is NOT valid because it wasn't in the temple.
You are stepping into dangerous ground if your husband REALLY cares a lot about that religion and lifestyle. Be wise and try that this wont bring drama into your marriage.
Thank you and for bringing my awareness to the probably obvious "trick" ways of theirs. I need to stop being so naive. I am vaguely aware of the potential dramas that may come from this issue, but need to continue to be open with my husband as he has been to me and I need not make drama where it wouldn't have been. I always worried about the temple marriage, too seeing as how to get one I would have to be dishonest in my beliefs. He was always aware of my beliefs, but one I forget is to believe him in what he says and stay strong in my beliefs in case I need to stand by them for any reason. Thank you.
Classic religious mindset from Trevor, blame the victim and make accusations that make them feel like they made the mistake(s) in abusive situations. Typical dismissive and rude BS. Anyway, one surefire way to get rid of them is tell them that you are Muslim. They are not allowed to teach Muslims (that is what I was told/heard as a former member anyway) (but not 100% sure on that) and try to convert them because of the whole, your Muslim family would probably kill you if you converted thing. hehehe of course that is not a good idea to lie to them but if they don't leave you alone.......... hahaha Take care :)
hahaha thank you
Lets examin that for a second. She went to their church, and agreed for them coming over, and she is then a victm?! Strange world you live in! I can empathise that she didn't have the courage / strength of character to say 'no thanks', there are times when we say yes but mean no because its a situation we feel uncomfortable in. Granted. But whats really silly is al this demonising the LDS when she went to their church and then agreed to them coming over!
My typical 'religious mind set' is no more than 'take responsibility for your own actions and give the benefit of the doubt to others unless you have good personal reason not to". Thinking "how dare they talk to me in their church and come over when I say yes" is less than that to my mind. There is no victim here.
T: I do sympathise that its hard sometimes to get out of something when we have said yes but meant no. I have done it myself. I am not actually trying to point the finger at you, I am really just trying to counteract the "those evil religious people' mentality in this thread. I think its right to be reasonable whether you are religious or not. And of course as a christian I have no particular friendship with LDS which I think is a cult.
Christians are all in cults too. Look up the meaning of words BEFORE you use them. Which brand of Christian cult do you belong to? It's easy for you to condemn others without even looking in the mirror, isn't it? She is not a victim yet but experience tells me that she will be unless she stands strongly against them. Just like most Christians are victims (willingly or not) of the inhumane ideas and rules of their dogmas and authoritarian power structures. How many times has someone been held back from joyful or happy moments and controlled by crazy old men exercising unrelenting dominion over women and children as well as men. Who allows these old men to act like gods over other humans?
People like you allow it so you are a tacit accomplice or blatant supporter of their collective crimes and brainwashing. Reasonable people reject tyranny and do not cowardly or strongly support it like most religious people have done repeatedly and still do. Do you understand what real morality or integrity is? Free your mind from the religious shackles that bind and blind it and you will see clearly what reality is made of. Until then, enjoy living in the dark ages /sarcasm May you find peace, fellow human :)
Nate, a bit on the meaning of the word cult.
A lot of words have different nuances (semantic range) of meaning and the context in which they are found is decisive for understanding the meaning correctly.
If you read all the definitions of the word 'cult' you will also see that it means:
"a quasi-religious organisation using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents" which is in contrast to mainstream and even state religion (UK church and state issue. Our Queen is the head of the church).
Of course it also means: "Something that is fashionable and significant by a group" Which can have no religious connotations at all. Also "intense interest in an idea" which atheism would come under! In popular usage it also refers to movies, cars and some rock groups.
The context in which I used the word "cult" should show that I meant it in the narrower, first sense above. I hope thats helpful, its been an issue for me in preiovusly doing a degree in theology which included studying literary, form and redaction criticism in the context of the original documents of the Bible to establish origin and original meaning.
RE: "using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents" - fear-based Pavlovian reward/punishment techniques, pseudepigraphal books, based upon fabrications, using no scientific or archaeological evidence, explaining how the world and the Jewish nation began - I think that pretty much describes the Judeo/Christian/Islamic theology to a T!
That would be a matter of opinion.
1. whether reward and punishment statements are valid depends on the truthfulness that they point to. parents do it all the time, but parenting isn't a cult.
2. Fabrications etc is just your opinion.
3. Scientific and archeological evidence is used by biblical schollars, thats just a silly thing to say.
4. How the world began, fits in with point 2. Science says that the world had a definite beginning before which time, space and matter did not exist. The Bible says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" meaning that before that there was nothing in terms of time, space and matter. Thats not a big "hang everything on" statement, its just showing that its silly to think that Christians beleive something that science completely contradicts.
5. Archeology, thats also foundless. Take Luke's gospel of which every historical fact that can be verified has been so because of archeology. Just one example.
I cant reply any more for now, its Sunday, got church and all!
I can't even respond to the fantasy world in which you live, and even if I should spend hours refuting the nonsense you've spouted above, you'd just move the goal posts.
Church is probably the best place for you.
I rarely speak of that which I can't support, but as I said, no matter what I say to you, regardless of how much of my time and effort I spent, you would find ways to dismiss it, discount it as opinion, or move the goal posts, and as I said, it isn't worth the effort.
You indicated it was late, and I thought you were through for the night - if it hadn't been for the fact that I was expecting correspondence, I'd never have known you'd continued posting. I'm not about to spend my sleep time dragging out evidence for you to dismiss.
Besides, the burden of proof Trevor, is on you.