Should parents be allowed to take children of medication, because they prayed for the childs condition in church and believe that God will heal him. I had a client telling me that she took her son with ADHD, Tics and Tourettes and OCD of his meds because they prayed for him. 

These children have a neurological condition and is genetically predisposed to this condition. They have a hard time at school because of their dissability, and this results in low selfesteem, depression and anxiety. This child only started to ajust, make friends and fit in to now be back to square one because of his mothers believes. This I consider to be child abuse. To me it is no different than taking a childs spectacles away that he nedds to function normally and then giving him carrots to eat instead. Should there be laws protecting children from this kind of abuse? should one be able to report this form of abuse? Or should the parents religious rights be protected.

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he was made to stand infront of the class for a full day and pul faces a mirror the teacher gave him

Well what a cunt.

I'm afraid however you got me wrong, I was not talking about people like you, and it's great you help your kid like that. I'm talking about the kind of parents who have such high expectations of their kids now that they can't fathom the fact they might just be bad in school, or not like it.

It might come as a surprise to you that I'm actually pro-drug/medication as well. I'm all for painkillers and band-aids too, but not when people start applying them to their brainfreeze and little scratches.

There are certainly a lot of people who need medication, but it's also true that companies nowadays try to make healthy people as paranoid as possible so they can sell their stupid shit to those who don't even need it.

Even here that's the case. Last time I went to the doctor because my knee hurt for some reason and I wanted to get it checked, that's all I was there for. But before I left, the doc looked at me and asked me if I'm alright. He's a good guy but I knew he would've instantly written me some antidepressant shit if I asked him to, or at least redirected me to someone who would. I wasn't even down that day, I was tired.

I have to admit that the one thing that piss me of is when you walk into a pharmacy, and there is shelve upon shelve with all the so called miracle drugs for weight loss and ADHD, But as long as there is desperate people in the world someone wil try and make money of them. I do get your point though that even doctors will push meds when not needed, I was told to see a surgeon with my shoulder and told that I need an op as the cortezone injections was not helping anymore.  Turned out after a second opinion that my body was to accidic and all I had to do is change my diet to a more alkaline diet , never needed to go back to the doctor. After a weak on the diet all pain was gone out of all my joints. The only time I feal pain is after a few glasses of red wine. I just think that in any condition one must tak e a holistic look at it and treat it in that manner. And be realistic enough to know that praying to the tooth fairy is not gonna fix the problem and that religion at the most does more damage than good.That people as in my main point is not demon posessed or paying for the sins of there fathers. That I find it sick that children are made to suffer because of parents religion. But then religion is about being a marter and if they can not be the marter why not let their children be the marter.

As  a parent with two children with ADHD, Tics and Tourettes, and OCD I don't know about your country but we have protocall. First eye and hearing test, then blood works, then EEG. All medical aspects are looked at , then an evaluation of the family to see if it is an emotional problem. Medication is not used as an easy way out. There is so much ignorance around this and I find the most ignorant to be the most vocal. For information to go from one neron in the brain to the next is a big problem for these children dopamin is released between the nerons and on each neron lets call it vacume cleaners will absorb some of the dopamin to keep the balance normal. Children with ADHD have to many of these vacume cleaners and all or most of the dopamin is absorbed before the message gets through. It is like crossing a bridge and then finding there is no more bridge half way through. Rittalin for instance puts plugs on thes vacume cleaners so that they can have normal dopamin levels and information can go through. This is one of the reasons that peole complain that thes children don't listen, but actually the message just falls away. People with to much dopamin have bipolar, the simptoms are almost the same as in dopamin lies attention, self esteem, impulse controle, emediate gratification ect. As a parent I am educated enough to know that you can not just medicate this condition but once on medication you can through Cognitive behavioral therapy give the child the tools to cope with life and give him the chance of an education. They are all neurological conditions and ADHD is also an pologenetic condition. Interesting is that on of the genes involved is the gene for allergies. People tend to thing it is being over diagnosed but as science has moved forward we are more capable of diagnosing these children and treating them. When I was a child it was the parents that was blamed as they can't disepline their child, still hear that today, it was the stupid uncle or aunt that dropped out of school because they were lazy. The alcoholic or druggie in the family the drop out. They were put into schools that went to grade 10 and could then become a mechanic or hairdresser. Why because of ignorance

I'm a philosopher by education, and I've had to think about where "rights" come from. I've been forced, in the end, to the conclusion that there are only two kinds of rights:

1) legislated

2) imaginary

Legislated rights aren't God-given or inherent in any way. Imaginary rights are, well, not not very real. 

I grew up as a Christian Scientist--which is a term that sounds very funny in this forum. But anyway, they, as a whole do not use drugs or doctors. As a result, they have been considered a cult at times, specifically for the type of reasons you mention in your post. 

In practice though, most CS's will fall back to traditional medicine. Every single one of the adults in my congregation that I knew had been to a doctor. It is the reason I left the church in the first place. 

I, and my whole family grew up drug and doctor free. I went to my first doctor when I was 30, long after I had left the church. Now, we didn't have the problems described above or much at all in the way of sickness, but when I left the church, I knew it was just a function of lucky genetics and of having protection around us since everyone around us was inoculated.

There is a lot to be said for being drug free, though. Because there are side effects, even ones that are not accounted for. The "there's a pill for everything" culture seems to be consistently on the wrong side of health.

Further, unless you are the treating doctor, no matter how well you might think you have diagnosed the children you are speaking of. There are already laws protecting those children in the form of them going to a doctor in the first place. Doctors are required to report abuses, however, taking a child off of meds wold not likely be considered abuse. In many cases though, doctors will take a person off of meds for a period of time to see how things have progressed.

Also, none of the things you mentioned are life threatening. Though you would make different decisions, you are not in their shoes, so you may not know the consequences of any of their choices. 

No I suppose you do have a point that it is not life threatening, What I can tell you though is the amount of uneducated parents beating the **** out of these children because they are not listening. Even though corparal punishment is not aloowed at school I know out of personal experience of children beaten with wooden planks from school desks because of not paying atention in the class. Children getting called infront of all the teachers and schoolboard because there handwriting is not neat enough. Children getting expeld from preschool because they don't sit stil. A child with serious ADHD if not helped can not focus , such a child will constantly be called out and repremanded infront of class mates. The result is that children start to distance them from such a child. They then mimic the teachers behaviour on the play ground. The more depressed  the child becomes the worse the problem becomes. If they have tics and tourettes this will become worse under stress. Because of this they will be called names and parents even tell them to shut up or spank them to stop the latest habbit. So unfortunately these children become depressed. And yes not life threatening they in some cases become suicidel and some do commit suicide. We have taken my son of meds twice for a period of a year and the first time he took an overdose he was nine, the second time we took him of he was 14 he took an overdose, he took himself of meds a year ago he is 19 and is back to square one. Now he himself understand that it is a neroloogical condition, that there is no quick fix. We now with research understand that he is not one of the 5% that will out grow the condition, so we will not be taking his meds away any time soon to see if he has outgrown his genetic disorder. It is not the condition itself that is life threatening it is the depression that sets in because of an intolerant society that becomes life threatening. A society that makes these children belief that they are worthless. Religous people that tell them they are demon posesed. What is left of such a child at the end of the day. A christian mother gave me this book to read her son has ADHD he commited suicide a year after she gave her book to me to read. The myth of ADHD and other learning disabilities, parenting without Ritalin. Written by D.r Jan Strydom and Susan du Plessis. The book quotes the bible on every second page and tells you that every time your child tic you have to spank him and them qouting the bilble to make his point.

You might find this film interesting, it is about a young man's first time without drugs in his life. It is very watchable, too.

Thank you I am open to watch anything and then make an objective opinion, will definetly take a look

You may find my response distressing, but I feel that, as long as we want our own religious freedom to disbelieve, we need to defend the religious freedom of believers as well.

I feal strongly that one should respect others views, and let them raise their children as they see fit, and at most it will be acording to their culture or religious back ground.  It is sad and remains sad when those believes do more harm than good. When children that have no voice is the ones that suffer because of this. So out of respect for religion we stay silent? Because that is what is expected. One can critisise and ridicule anything in life just not religion as this is the one true faith that we as atheists lack. I still find it hard to find any aspect in christianity that deserves my respect. 

But don't you see? You're inviting the logic that "We need to save children from those godless atheists. After all, they want to control us!"

Bill Maher once said (or was quoting someone who said) "When they come to take your rights away, they'll use the excuse 'We're doing it because of the children.'"

Yip they have to save all the children from us , cause we are so bad, I don't like my mind being controled, had 40 years of that.


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