Reasons why i am a Theist
hi all
i believe Theism explains best our existence, and i believe, the God that revealed himself in the bible, is the creator of all that exists. What are my reasons to believe so ?
1. The universe had a beginning, therefore a cause. Since beyond our universe, there was no time, no space, and no matter, that cause must be timeless, beginningless, eternal, spaceless, transcendent, invisible, personal, incredibly powerful. That description fits best to the God of the bible.
2. The universe is finely tuned to permit life on our planet. Over 120 fine tune constants are know up to know, and as more time pasts, more are discovered. This might be due to chance, to physical need, or to design. Chance is a very bad explanation. Some advocate a Multiverse. But to have just one life permitting universe, you need 1 to 10^500 attempts to get it done. Thats a 1 with 500 zeros. If we put it in comparison, that in our universe, there exist around 10^80 atoms, this shows how improbable it is, that a Multiverse could explain finetuning. It could not be by physical need, since if so, why are there many planets, which are not life permitting, but our is ? So its best explained by design. Our earth/solar/moon system is a very strong evidence. Our solar system is embedded at the right position in our galaxy, neither too close, nor too far from the center of the galaxy. Its also the only location, which alouds us to explore the universe, In a other location, and we would not see more than stellar clouds. The earth has the right distance from the sun, and so has the moon from the earth. The size of the moon, and the earth, is the right one. Our planet has the needed minerals, and water. It has the right atmosphere, and a ozon protecting mantle. Jupiter attracts all asteroids , avoiding these to fall to the earth, and make life impossible. The earths magnetic field protects us from the deadly rays of the sun. The velocity of rotation of the earth is just right. And so is the axial tilt of the earth. Beside this, volcano activities, earth quakes, the size of the crust of the earth, and more over 70 different paramenters must be just right. To believe, all these are just right by chance, needs a big leap of faith. This is indeed maibe the strongest argument for theism.
3. Life. Abiogenesis has not been able to explain the existence of life on earth. Science cannot explain it. There are strong reasons to believe, a natural origin is not probable, and a bad explanation. First of all, why whould dead rocks need to evolve, to create life ? Secondly, just one living cell is more complex than the most complex machine created by man. A living cell is irreducible complex. All parts must be on place, making a gradual evolution not possible.
Even the simplest cell needs DNA , which is a information carrier. Information is always created by a mind. There i no natural mechanism known to man, to create information. Information is by essence spiritual, and not physical. There is no bridge to cross the gulf from material to spiritual. Even through millions of years of evolution. Its not possible. Add to this the moral argument, experience of miracles, the testimony of the bible, and you have a nice case of theism.
Tags: bs, circular, fallacy, reasoning
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Angelo on -
i have a thread at my personal virtual library, which leads with the question, if life on other planets is possible :
http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astronomy-cosmology-and-god-f15/lif...
If life claims a home anywhere in the vast cosmos, it must be on a planet like Earth orbiting a star like the Sun in a galaxy like the Milky Way. And, as ongoing studies shows, that possibility shrinks, rather than grows, as each year’s research adds to the harvest of data. Extraterrestrial life does indeed appear to be homeless—unless, of course, a transcendent, supernatural Being built that home. But that possibility points toward, rather than away from, belief in the biblical Creator. -
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Permalink Reply by Angelo on
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read the thread on my forum, to which i linked above, and you will understand, why your point is flawed.
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Permalink Reply by Angelo on
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it would take too much to list all arguments against your assertion. But if you want to know better, please have a look at my forum, and see why i disagree :
EXOTIC LIFE SITES: THE FEASIBILITY OF FAR-OUT HABITATS
http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astronomy-cosmology-and-god-f15/lif... -
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Permalink Reply by Luca Angelucci on -
I'd like to know how Angelo can explain:
"Then spoke Joshua to Yahweh in the day when Yahweh delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand you still on Gibeon; You, Moon, in the valley of Aijalon. " -
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Permalink Reply by Angelo on
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I think science has the exact same significance to both of us. The difference relies herein, how we interprete the scientific data. The best , you can answer, when it comes to the critical questions, like the origin of the universe, and origin of life, and human consciousness , and ability of speach and thinking, is : I don't know. I think however, its not wront to say : God must be the origin, since a naturalistic origin is highly inprobable.
http://thoughtlife.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/atheism-refutedeasily-p...
The atheist’s boast that his quest for truth is untainted by religious presuppositions is ultimately a farce. Atheism claims to be true as a result of an unbiased examinationof the facts of reality, but if truth be told, it is presuppositionally committed to faith in the naturalistic worldview. -
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Permalink Reply by Angelo on
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So you had to start with the premise of "the revealed creation by god" - per se a stupendously extraordinary and unsubstanciated event
What seems more reasoable to you : a efficient cause of our universe ( a creator, or designer ) , or a unefficient one ( nothing ) ?
You can hypotesize also a eternally existing universe, but philosophical reasons, and scientific ones, let this idea be remotely possible -
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Permalink Reply by Mario Rodgers on -
You're still playing the "comes from nothing" card and you're still playing the "God of the gaps" card. ALL IN THE SAME POST!
A remote possibility of an eternal "multiverse"(not universe) is still better odds than the idea of your version of a sky wizard going "POOF! There it is!"
Everything about this seems more reasonable to me than the idea of a deity.
You're also loading the questions. That's insincere and we're not buying it! You try to present the argument of a generic "creator" for the universe as in a deistic sense, but ultimately it comes down to you want us to believe in the Biblical, Abrahamic version and possibly your particular denomination's idea of one. STOP PLAYING THIS GAME!
I don't need to go over again why it's fallacious to think that everything, the universe, and life looks "designed". It all comes down to god of the gaps and it all comes down to your personal opinion of an unseemly and impossible source for the probable facts and it all comes down to you trying to put magic in the rainbow. -
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Permalink Reply by Mario Rodgers on
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I think however, its not wrong to say : God must be the origin, since a naturalistic origin is highly inprobable.
Actually. It IS wrong to say that. You're the only one with presuppositions here. Science doesn't state "Something MUST be this." and most atheists aren't concerned with that either. We can only examine the evidence. We can only prove a positive. We can't disprove a negative.
Substitute "God" with any of your other favorite deities from storybooks that you "know" are fake and tell me how your phrase sounds. -
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
"I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer in science. It is what drives the pursuit of discovery.
Not knowing so therefore proclaiming "God did it!" is not a scientific conclusion. It is an priori conclusion that reflects the bias and ignorance of the person uttering it.
For someone who claims to hold science in high esteem, you sure don't seem to know the first thing about it. -
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Permalink Reply by Angelo on
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"I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer in science. It is what drives the pursuit of discovery.
I don't know as the beginning of the journey is perfectly acceptable. I don't know at the END of it is not. That is what atheists do. A natural origin of a series of phenomenas can be discarted on rational grounds, but despite the obvious, atheists continue with the " i don't know " answer. Why ? because they are commited to the philosophy of naturalism, where supernatural explanations have no room as valid and rational explanation. They could make it easier, be just more honest, and say : We don't want God,period. That would be much more honest. -
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Permalink Reply by Cara Coleen on -
We're not at the end of the journey, are we? No.
If what you're proposing were so "obvious" there wouldn't be so much disagreement, even among people who do believe in your god. How many denominations of Christianity are there? Oh but I'm sure you're the one guy who has it right.
I like the way you presume to know our motives. Why do you need to believe this has to do with our desire to reject your god? Does it frustrate you that we refuse to validate your wishful thinking by saying we don't want there to be a god?
Here, in front of my atheist peers, I'll admit it out loud: MY LIFE WOULD BE EASIER IF I BELIEVED THERE WAS A GOD. IN THAT SENSE, I WISH THERE WERE A GOD. That is honesty, Angelo. However, my desires do not dictate my beliefs. I do not believe things because they are "easier." Just because you think life is meaningless without a god does not change the fact that life could very well be meaningless! Scary, huh? -
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Permalink Reply by James on -
If life claims a home anywhere in the vast cosmos, it must be on a planet like Earth orbiting a star like the Sun in a galaxy like the Milky Way.
You are making a rather broad assumption here. You are assuming that our form of Carbon based life is the only form that is possible. Life that is 'like us' would need conditions similar to what we have. However, there is nothing that says that if there is life elsewhere in the universe that is HAS to be like us in any shape of form. -
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