If a male has sex with a female who is drunk, normally we would call it rape because she's unable to give informed (clearheaded) consent.

But if he's as drunk (not clearheaded) as she is, is it still rape?

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If you accidentlally kill when you are drunk..you are still responsible for the consequences. If you break into a donut shop and are found by the cops passed out with half eaten donuts everywhere...you are still responsible. Its no different with rape. Yes...it is still rape and there have been some high profile cases of men (and recently a woman) who were sent to the clinker for it despite both parties being drunk.

Davis, I wasn't asking a legal question, but an ethical one.

It seems to me that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If one person hasn't the presence of mind to be held responsible for consenting to sex, what gives the other person, equally drunk, the presence of mind to be held responsible?

Are men to be seen as the more responsible people, all other things being equal?

Two people are drunk out of their minds. One of them tells the other to just chill out in the car...we can sleep off the alcohol. The passenger passes out and the other person feels like going home. That person then starts up the car and drives it. That person is solely responsible for damage, injury or death...not the passenger. He/she is also guilty of putting the passenger in danger and the psychological damage that may come from it.

Who is responsible? The driver. It can be a man or a woman.

Male rape happens in college dorms...its simply rarely reported for many reasons.

I think you are considering too extreme an example here (one person coherent and the other not). I think what Unseen is trying to get at is the following case:

Both individuals have an equal BAC, let's say a 0.1 such that they are definitively drunk but not in a stupor, and are affected by alcohol in the same manner, neither's judgement is more impaired than the other. If both individuals at that time consent to having sex with each other does that constitute rape? If so then who is at fault?

"If so then who is at fault?"

The guy with the feathers.

BTW Hawkman, When did this happen to you?


"...If you break into a doughnut shop and are found by the cops passed out with half eaten donuts everywhere...you are still responsible. "

But am I responsible of the corpse of the  doughnut shop's owner that's under the pile of doughnuts?

They know each other well. He wants to have sex with her and has indicated as much while both are sober. She says i want you. But i can only have sex when i am drunk off my ass, staggering like a hobo in the noon day sun. She gets that way. They have sex. 

Is it rape?

How hard would it be for him to get that rather weird consent in writing? If I were that bloke, I think I'd want a bit of a written confirmation, wouldn't you?

The most of extreme of consent advocates turn sex into something very unromantic and unexciting by requiring separate consents with each escalation. 

Can I kiss you?

Can I caress your body while we kiss?

Can I put my hand under your skirt while we kiss?

Can I gently masturbate you while we kiss?

Can I go under your panties and enter your vagina with my finger/fingers while we kiss?


Yeah but unless it's in writing, it's useless.

For the male, it seems useless no matter what, since culturally we tend to assume that the female is a victim simply because she says she was. Consent in writing is generally useless if the person signing the document wasn't in a clear-headed state.


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