Questioning theists moral
This is my first serious post on this site, so bare with me if I happen to not quite match up with this sites standards due to a lack grammar or general knowledge.
Of course it is important being able to argue about scientific matters, evolution, big bang theory and other theories. Often I have to realize theists tend to not care about what science tells them but rather what they have been indoctrinated to believe over decades.
Having no real arguments many theists quickly turn a scientific conversation into a discussion about personal believe.
Since none of us is actually able to prove the non-existence of a god, a different approach would be to prove that there is no need for a god based on two things.
1. Question their character for feeling the need to follow simple rules, like not killing or showing respect to other people(which religious people hardly do anyways), only because they fear the wrath of their god. Should morals really be based on fear or rather on respect and common sense?
2. One very interesting question I picked up somewhere in the vast of the internet. If a tribesman lived his life in peace, with respect for others and followed every rule a religion has framed, will this person go to hell simply due to the fact that he never worshiped the theists god? This should also work if you replace the Tribesman with an infant which makes it even more personal for most people.
As this is obviously no Step-by-Step tutorial how to argue with someone I still hope this provides some help or maybe just a little poke to the brain to give some new ideas.
Me being a very funny guy I will end this post with a hilarious joke.
Two hydrogen atoms walk into a bar.
One orders a beer, the other one orders a soda.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on -
So in terms of the tribesman, it is my understanding that on the day of days, even that tribesman will be told the truth and given the chance.
My whole response is, and if I'm wrong, if I go and meet god, I will still give him the finger because he is one immoral and sadistic fuck.
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Permalink Reply by Stanley Brooks on -
Robert, I also am with you on this one, great response!
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Permalink Reply by Holden Freeman Esq. on
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I will be right there with you. May 22nd right?
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Permalink Reply by Zach Winkler on -
Hello, I am new to this website, so I hope I am doing this properly.
1:"Morals" based on fear are not really "morals". That is like a man saving a woman because he knows she is carrying a-lot of money (and he is looking for a reward). Morals exist as intent, not as actions, because two people performing the same action can have different motives powering their behavior. So someone doing anything out of fear, is not doing it because of their morals, but because of their cowardice.
2:I have encountered this second question a-lot. Theist will often reply to this scenario by saying "everyone, (no matter what) is always given the opportunity to accept Jesus (replace "Jesus" with what-ever other deity you want)" They never explain how an isolated tribesman would get a chance to accept their religion, they will simply state that this will some-how occur (like it's a law of physics). As for the infant, they often say that they are "innocent" and will not be judged by their deity.
This type of theist response have no evidence or reasoning to back them (they are speculation), so they are reletively worthless. If you push this point onto their response to these scenarios, they will most likely become angered (signaling to you, that you have won the discussion). I would not push this too much though, because no matter what, the theist mind will (most-likely) not accept your view point, no matter what.
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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on -
Welcome to TA, Zach! You seem to be 'doing this' just wonderfully - very well thought out response. Not that I'm in charge of grading these things, ha ha.
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Permalink Reply by Zach Winkler on
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Thank-you muchly!
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Permalink Reply by Stanley Brooks on
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Yes welcome to TA, and thanks for the response. Also very practical advice. I recall once trying to tell a fundamentalist xtian the jayzus was a jew and the woman had to be restrained by her associates from coming over the table at me. It had not seemed like that intense of a discussion and I had merely mentioned that in passing. It is amazing to me how ignorant many theists are about their beliefs.
I'm new here as well, but you seem to be doing it just right.
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Permalink Reply by Benny on -
With nothing to back up their argument they just turn it into a personal believe thing and yell at you: "BECAUSE I BELIEVE SO!!!┼!!!"
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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on -
Hi Benny, Yes, it’s good to keep a sense of humor when debating. It helps to demonstrate that you are comfortable with what you are talking about. I use this when theists use their “get out card” of having the bible as their moral authority.
Sorry to post this again so soon but some may not have seen it.
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.
The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by an east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted fan,
Jim.
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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on -
lmao, pwned!
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Permalink Reply by Stella on -
Wow Rag, that was so informative. And most of it comes from only one book in the bible. Multiply these verses by a couple hundred and that pretty much sums up their beloved holy book. Needless to say, it's full of potholes and contradictions. The editor of this hole-y book sucks!
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