Hello all. I am Natarajan (a.k.a Raju), an atheist from Chennai, India. Most of my family know that I am atheist, and they usually avoid discussing religion with me. I too avoid the topic, so no one hurts each other.

 

However, I have an uncle who is particularly religiously zealous and otherwise rude. He is the kind of man I wouldn't be surprised to be guilty of doing extreme acts in the name of religion (or under any other excuse, for that matter). It is also worth mentioning that he is a habitual alcoholic, wife abuser and child abuser. One day, he sent me (and a bunch of other folks, some of them family) an email with a Word document attachment. The Word document's contents were exactly the same as the contents of this page: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/96175_awesome-conversation-abdulkala...

 

I responded (reply-all) to this email, and then his son (my cousin) responded to my email very harshly. This resulted in an exchange of emails. I want to share the whole conversation with all of you.

Mainly, I want to know if I could have handled this any better, or how would you have handled the same situation?

 

Copy-paste of the whole email exchange:

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Thu, 23 December, 2010 12:14:10 PM

Subject: Faith & Science

 

Dear All

 

I read an interesting argument between a Professor and his student .

 

Please see as attachment

(attachment contains the contents of this page: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/96175_awesome-conversation-abdulkala...)

 

Cheers

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

----------------------

 

From: ME

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Thu, 23 December, 2010 1:57:30 PM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

Not surprising that the student is a muslim. By the way you can find this "interesting" conversation on this islamic website, with "god" replaced by "ALLAH" (lol!): http://muxlim.com/blogs/servantofallah17/does-allah-exist-a-convers....

 

Oh, and the "whatever you didn't see with your own eyes is taken on faith" argument is not new, neither does it hold. There is a difference between taking something on faith and taking it on evidence. The professors's brain may not be visible to the student (because it is inside the head, which is opaque - duh!), but it is scientifically established that human beings have brains. It is not scientifically established that anything called god exists.

 

Darwin's theory of evolution is always taught as a theory, not as something indisputable. It is so far (comparatively) the theory that presents the most scientific plausibility, compared to grossly ridiculous other theories. That is all.

 

Here's a good resource on why people still believe in god: http://atheism.about.com/od/theismtheists/tp/WhyTheistsBelieveInGod...

 

If only common sense were more common! 

 

-------------

 

 

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Thu, 23 December, 2010 10:28:23 PM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

For your kind information Raju:

 

1. That was not A.P.J Abdul Kalam... It was Albert Einstein the physicist... Some idiot down the line removed his name and put AJP's name! 

 

2. Please spare me the intelligent talk about the professor's brain not visible - it was a deliberate joke by Einstein (duh!) Any third grade student could have seen that...

 

3. At the time they had this conversation, Darwinism was very strong and people actually believed it... Not just as a theory but as a fact... Only later it became disputable... So the point taken by Einstein was very much relevant at that time...

 

4. If u think u can make a mockery out of this by ur reply please, u r grossly mistaken. I would advice u to get ur facts right and think before u speak - of course u need not follow it!

 

5. Explain the points about darkness, death and cold in this conversation can u? Am damn sure u cannot! Otherwise u would have tried to make a mock out of it already...

 

Like u say - If only common sense was more common!

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

From: ME

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Thu, 23 December, 2010 10:28:23 PM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

Replies inline in blue:

 

For your kind information Raju:

 

1. That was not A.P.J Abdul Kalam... It was Albert Einstein the physicist... Some idiot down the line removed his name and put AJP's name! 

Who is that idiot? Typical theist manipulation of data and calling it "fact". Tomorrow they will fill in Mother Theresa's name in that place. Wait, looks like this conversation itself is doubted. Check out: http://www.religioustolerance.org/culeins.htm

 

2. Please spare me the intelligent talk about the professor's brain not visible - it was a deliberate joke by Einstein (duh!) Any third grade student could have seen that...

Then please spare me your theist stuff. If you preach theism to me, I will try to teach sense to you. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you want your theism to be respected, learn to respect atheists' atheism.

 

3. At the time they had this conversation, Darwinism was very strong and people actually believed it... Not just as a theory but as a fact... Only later it became disputable... So the point taken by Einstein was very much relevant at that time...

Wait. Darwinism is still strong. It is a strong *theory* because it cannot (yet?) be proved. If you claim that it was taken as indisputable fact, what's your source for that? And taken by whom? 

 

4. If u think u can make a mockery out of this by ur reply please, u r grossly mistaken. I would advice u to get ur facts right and think before u speak - of course u need not follow it!

There is no need for that. This alleged conversation is a mockery in itself. What so-called "fact" are you referring to?

 

5. Explain the points about darkness, death and cold in this conversation can u? Am damn sure u cannot! Otherwise u would have tried to make a mock out of it already...

Any half-wit knows that darkness does not exist. Trying to imply that atheists do not even know that, is a feeble ineffective attempt at mocking atheists. It is somewhat like the question, "Can god create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?" Answer "yes" or "no" etc etc.

 

Like u say - If only common sense was more common!

 

------------------

 

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: ME

Sent: Fri, 24 December, 2010 7:13:17 AM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

Am teaching theism? Where do u get ur thoughts and insights from i wonder? The answer you gave to the second point i made was totally irrelevant... Am sure u disagree though... I can live without learning sense from a person like you - thanks for the offer... I never said anything about theism in my reply if u did not notice...

 

You follow whatever YOU want in YOUR life... Dont try to say that what others are thinking and following are insane and without common sense... Like u say - show respect... Because i respect for what YOU are and what YOU follow (atheism it may be) but not the fact that u seem so egoistic about it...

 

And one more thing - this is a concept of "God" which can be interpreted in any form u wish (or no form at all) and has nothing to do with religion... IF u think God and religion as inter-related in some way, well "God save you"... And it does not matter if it was APJ or Einstein - it is "some" bold student...

 

Your third reply confirms what u need - proof! For that please travel back in time and see evolution for ur self...

 

The alleged conversation is a mockery by itself - agreed... It made a mock of the professor and yourself because of two things:

- The whole class was in uproar

- You can say that a similar reaction occurred here too (after reading ur reply that is)

 

Your 5th reply supersedes your second reply - no words and comments... You may be interested in Scientology... Pls take a look...

 

Please dont surprise me with ur ignorance (or intelligence) again... We will not have this conversation again and i dont expect a reply so spare ur self that time... 

 

NB - this is addressed only to u...

 

 

---------------------------

 

From: ME

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Fri, 24 December, 2010 9:01:32 AM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

Replies inline, again in blue (love that color).

 

Am teaching theism? Where do u get ur thoughts and insights from i wonder? The answer you gave to the second point i made was totally irrelevant... Am sure u disagree though... I can live without learning sense from a person like you - thanks for the offer... I never said anything about theism in my reply if u did not notice...

I was referring to the first email sent out. That was preaching theism. My reply was to your statement, "Please keep your intelligence to yourself", I am saying, "In that case please keep your theism to yourself". This refers to the sender of the first email. I thought that is so obvious it doesn't need to be stated. Anyway.

 

You follow whatever YOU want in YOUR life... Dont try to say that what others are thinking and following are insane and without common sense... Like u say - show respect... Because i respect for what YOU are and what YOU follow (atheism it may be) but not the fact that u seem so egoistic about it...

Is that so? The first email certainly didn't show any sign of respect towards atheists. This cooked up story tries to portray atheists as angry professors using all the wrong arguments. Insane? I never said that. Why are you trying to put words into my mouth? Common sense? I was referring to Abdul Kalam's common sense (as the the first email claimed it was him). Where do other people come into it? Oh, and what makes theists think that their ego is justified, whereas atheists' ego is not? I am not the one who wrote an email about theism and atheism and sent it out to everyone. You theists started it. So you have it coming right back.

 

And one more thing - this is a concept of "God" which can be interpreted in any form u wish (or no form at all) and has nothing to do with religion... IF u think God and religion as inter-related in some way, well "God save you"... And it does not matter if it was APJ or Einstein - it is "some" bold student...

Look up any dictionary (a real dictionary by the way - not some kind of scripture). You are wrong in your definition of religion. You can start here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

 

Your third reply confirms what u need - proof! For that please travel back in time and see evolution for ur self...

No, I didn't ask for proof. I asked for source. If you don't understand the difference between both, don't bother. Whenever you make any scientific or historic statement, someone will ask you what's your source i.e where did you hear/read about it. They want to know whether you read it in any biography / documentary / encyclopedia or you pulled it out of your hat (a.k.a "faith").

 

The alleged conversation is a mockery by itself - agreed... It made a mock of the professor and yourself because of two things:

- The whole class was in uproar

- You can say that a similar reaction occurred here too (after reading ur reply that is)

(yawn)

 

Your 5th reply supersedes your second reply - no words and comments... You may be interested in Scientology... Pls take a look...

I knew you'll run out of words.

 

Please dont surprise me with ur ignorance (or intelligence) again... We will not have this conversation again and i dont expect a reply so spare ur self that time... 

Ignorance of what? Try to justify what you're saying. Oh, its so typical (of theists) to say whatever you want to say, and then say, "dont reply to this". How convenient. One theist sends me an email mocking atheists in front of other people (probably other theists), I will definitely  reply-all revealing how ridiculous it is. It is like insulting someone in a room in front of a bunch of people, then the person will insult you back in front of the same people. That is what I did. If you dont want me to stop replying, then you stop replying first.

 

NB - this is addressed only to u...

What is NB?

 

------------------

 

 

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: ME

Sent: Fri, 24 December, 2010 8:18:19 PM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

I didnt even bother reading through ur replies... It is not worth my time and energy to do so... 

 

Just one word for u - Pathetic... 

 

-----------------------

 

 

From: ME

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Fri, 24 December, 2010 8:18:19 PM

Subject: Re: Faith & Science

 

 

Typical

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Views: 90

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

"If you only knew how many e-mails I have recieved from his family telling me how it is my fault he is sick because I am a heathern, or because I feed him wrong.. They are all vegetarian seventh day adventist."

 

*Shudders* 

"On that note, your uncle and my husbands uncle would get along great maybe we should set them up on a date!"

 

LLLLOOOOLLLLL. 


It is quite a humorous situation. I have damned him to eternity in hell! :)

I am glad he doesn't believe that petty bs!

This is an old hoary chestnut re Eintein and the prof : Check http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp and send this to your family member.

This one goes better - because it says 'another student' raised his hand - and began asking the questions ... 

 

Also obviously with an agenda.  

 

But still - the explanation of evil at the end - is minimal - because it doesn't at all touch on natural disasters - Natural causes - or the same pain and suffering animals go through by other animals.

 

The professor would surely have pointed this fine point out to the young "Einstein".  

I read the chain mail and... humans didn't evolve from monkeys...you could also ask if that student has ever seen the entire Earth flooded, or something of that nature. You can't see a black hole, but you can see the light being absorbed around it...there are a lot of things we can't see, and actually, you can see evolution with life forms that reproduce many times within our lifespan, for example, bacteria, viruses, although I hesitate to call them life forms, and even pests that eventually become immune to bugspray. Yes, you can see evolution.

RSS

Forum

In Defense of ‘Islamophobia’

Started by Brian Daurelle in Society. Last reply by Davis Goodman 25 minutes ago. 55 Replies

Sunday Disassembly

Started by Reg The Fronkey Farmer in Society. Last reply by Unseen 3 hours ago. 12 Replies

Awe struck

Started by Davis Goodman in Small Talk. Last reply by Unseen 17 hours ago. 40 Replies

where when how who why ?

Started by aubrey knows nothing * in Small Talk. Last reply by Davis Goodman 17 hours ago. 5 Replies

Services we love!

We are in love with our Amazon

Book Store!

Gadget Nerd? Check out Giz Gad!

Advertise with ThinkAtheist.com

In need a of a professional web site? Check out the good folks at Clear Space Media

© 2014   Created by umar.

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service