this is a webpage that i found the other day and I was wondering what other atheists thought about it. I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to science, most of my criticism is just human nature.


Please take the time to reply to some of these arguments.

Tags: arguments, exists, fact, god, proof, truth

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All I can say is all this "everything is perfect" kind of thought does not mean anything to me because we as humans evolved from conditions that provided us with opportunities to do so. It's kind of a chain reaction thing. The fact that each link in the chain fits with the link instantly before and after it does not help me to see why that means there is a God.


It's kind of like saying "Oh, isn't it perfect that we have mouths and it is pleasureable to eat". Okay, but how is that supposed to mean there is a God? I never got that connection. We have mouths because the environments we were formed from supported this deveopment.


It all seems pretty simple to me and I don't understand why someone would read that article and think it was a good reason to consider there is a God.


I think of the shifts of the oceanic plates and how it can be theorized that certain countries thousands miles away look like at one time they fit together with other countries. You could say it looks like a perfect fit. So why would that mean there is a God? It just means the continents drifted apart due to the laws of physics and plate tectonic motion throughout the ages.


If this Marilyn person had ever really been the atheist that she claims to have been, she would likely know how utterly ridiculous those arguments are.  It's likely that she was the kind of atheist who simply doesn't believe and doesn't know WHY they don't believe; the kind of atheist who didn't arrive at atheism through logic, reason, thought, and a journey to find the truth.

I'm with Galen on this one...


And those arguments are more suitable against the existence of a god.

If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up.


I just was talking about this tonight... remind them that the earth moves closer and away from the sun all the time The perihelion that currently occurs in early January places the Earth at a distance of about 91,402,500 miles (about 147,098,070 kilometers) from the sun....Likewise, the annual aphelion that currently occurs in early July happens about 14 days after the summer solstice. At this time, the distance of the aphelion is currently about 94,509,130 miles (about 152,097,700 kilometers).  Notice the difference?  Thats a lot.


The brain is a product of evolution.

Evaporation is a completely natural part of the water cycle which kids learn about in like 2nd grade.

The eye is another evolutionary product.  Technically, our eyes suck.  And why do blind animals have eyes?

What started the universe: no one knows, but claiming God MUST have done it, is idiotic.  Where did God come from?  Look in to other theories/hypothesis.

Laws of nature that never change?  Seriously??  If they changed, they wouldn't be LAWS lol.  This person is retarded.

DNA: another evolutionary masterpiece!  Not only do humans have DNA, but so does every other living thing on this planet.  And DNA PROVES EVOLUTION!  DNA is also fragile and corruptible.  If God made it, it should be perfect.  

God pursues us: I have never seen, heard, nor felt him.  This section seems to be a personal delusion. 

Jesus:  We should believe him because he was even more deluded that previous prophets?  His miracles are debatable and there is not much historical record of him.  Other religions claim to know God or Gods or Goddess(es).   And all religions KNOW they are the right one..... this one is no different.

That website's author clearly has little undersanding of mathematics and physics.


Lets take one argument and break it down:


1. The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.


The above is just lack of understanding. I don't blame the author. There ARE explanations. String Theory, Loop Quantum Gravity, Inflation theory are a few that are serious and sincere attempts are explaining them. To say the universe had a start when it was infinitesimally small with almost infinite gravity is wrong. In the centre of black holes where gravity is almost infinity, time comes to a halt, the concept of before and after doesn't make sense. So it's absurd to think of a past or a future of the universe when we talk about the big bang.


the mathematics is complicated, i haven't grasped it yet, but it's there. We say around 14 billion years ago time started because time and space are INTERCONNECTED. Without space, there is no time. Without the big-bang there was no space, and hence no time.


But there are questions we dont have answers to. Why DID it bang, and WHAT banged? Just because we don't know the answeres doesn't mean GOD made them.


Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible.


That's just bullshit. Life has evolved even in deep water vents. Multicellular life at that! Here's a cool link:


The arguments on that site are just rubbish. "Science hasnt proven this this and this. But look how wonderful shit is. So there must be God"

....all the while, not even DEFINING what this GOD is.


Good Old Dingbag!

she has a good technique.first she says if your closed you'll miss the trick (of course this makes you open up a little to the idea). Then she spouts facts of science to put you in awe of the facts and the fact that she is supposedly proving god leads your mind to attribute these wonders to god instead of reasoning it out yourself. Then she tries to connect with you on a personal level by saying " I was one of you and this is what I thought". 9 out of 10 atheist have thought those thoughts at one time or another so she becomes "like you".


   Now for the facts. The brain is a mess. There is misfiring and chemical imbalances, it hallucinates just for starters. The eye is just as bad. Humans are one of the worst suited for a natural environment now.


 She made a fuss over how shit fit so nicely together. The earth supports the life that evolved to live here. If we had more gravity we would be shorter with heavier bones. Plus early life was much different. Everything she said is trickery. She uses facts of science to smoke screen the topic and lead you along to draw the conclusions she wants.


  The fact that we're not all dead because the sun or earth is just right is not proof of god, only proof that life is suited to this planet. By the way the laws of nature she talks about are not proven to be constant. On earth they operate one way but there are exceptions. A black hole for one. Wasn't there one about gravity effecting time? We have no clue about deep space as of yet. You can't assume anything beyond the bounds of your present scientific ability or reach.

I have the feeling she is trying to convince herself there is a god, although if her god was so great why did he create human beings to kill and maim in his name.  Where is the logic. Science has proofs but if god wants us to believe in him let him show himself. Not possible I suppose.

 Evolution is great and is understandable if you have the brains to do so.


I think you might have hit the nail on the head, Elaine.
You cant really refute them or argue for those arguments. We do not know enough yet to say so, but they are arguments which do persuade me to believe in a God, the universe is truly incredible...

You can argue for them but only from ignorance. But we can refute them easily, because they are poor arguments.

Earth is a hospitable planet.

There are trillions upon trillions of planets in the universe. The chances that there wouldn't be hospitable planets are incredibly small. Earth is just one of those planets that can support sentient life, the members of which are now able to ask these questions. On planets like Venus, for instance, no sentient being would be there to ask these question.

So it's statistically normal that our planet would be hospitable.

Water is wonderful.

It's odorless and without taste because the cells from our noses and tongues don't detect water so that we wouldn't always have its taste and smell flooding our brains, consuming unnecessary energy and distracting us. See evolution!

Water is colorless? That's just silly. It's transparent, but its color is blue. It's just that light easily passes through water and only a fraction is being reflected. The frequency reflected most gives water the color blue, as seen from space. See optics!

Water is also abundant because oxygen and hydrogen are also abundant and because they react well together. See chemistry and the formation of elements - (astro)physics!

The human brain and the eye are way cool.

That's right, but they are also the product of evolution. For more info, see the formation of the eye and of neural systems throughout the animal kingdom!

The universe had a start.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that a god did it and certainly not a specific one, such as Yahweh. Cutting-edge physicists are working on this issue as we speak. Competing theories have been elaborated, all of which are more likely to be true than a being who created the universe solely through its will or superpowers. That's why scientists don't usually believe in this non-sense.

The laws of nature are mathematical.

So, how would that mean that a god created the world? I haven't heard of passages written in praise of mathematics in any holy book.

For more info about this see the mathematical universe hypothesis!

The DNA provides info for cells.

This is starting to annoy me a little. How on Earth could you draw the conclusion that this means there has to be a god?

For more info on DNA, see biology and especially natural selection. As for information itself, it is part of the world as much as energy and matter, as revealed by physics.

God pursues us and is initiating contact.

That's just a load of bull. There are people swearing they've been contacted by fairies, aliens or even unicorns (there has to be at least one, right?). And when they say they were contacted by a god, they usually refer to a specific unique god, being in contradiction with others who have been contacted by yet another unique god. And most people aren't contacted at all and these reports of "contacts" have been decreasing over the course of the human civilization, as did religiosity.

For more info on mythical creatures (like gods and fairies) and humans, see anthropology, psychology, neurology, sociology and so on!

Jesus Christ rocks.

Again, BS all over the place. There is no proof of Jesus' miracles, or his divine ancestor. There were many myths of super-humans in history, but it would be incredibly silly to believe they were actually true without evidence.

When we find planets which support life, theists can stop using the Goldilocks theory to attempt to show this planet is unique; which currently it is... 


'That's right, but they are also the product of evolution. For more info, see the formation of the eye and of neural systems throughout the animal kingdom!'


Current theories of evolution have difficultly explaining the mind/brain dilemma, so no. You cannot use reductionism here; you cannot have half a mind....


The universe had a start.

Currently, the best explanation for a universe is that God started it...

Dude, really? There is Goldilocks zone around every single start in the universe. Statistically speaking, many, many planets will be in those zones. You ask for life on these planets, but that's not the issue here. You could argue that life originated in our neighborhood and that's pretty awesome, but the fact that our planet is in the Goldilocks zone statistically means nothing.


As for the brain, the current theory explains it very good. See the development of the brain throughout the animal kingdom, with clear phases of evolution. There are parts in our brain that existed tens of millions of years ago, while others have appeared only hundreds of thousands of years ago. This is also clear when analyzing the brains of other animals and taking into consideration how well related they are with us. This way we can see what we have in common with primates, mice, cows, or even birds. Again I ask you, please inform yourself in these matters because they are really interesting, at least for me. There is plenty of information about the evolution of the brain, so you are really missing out if you don't search for it.


And no, the best explanation for the universe is not a god, and certainly not Yahweh. Even if the best explanation was a creator, it still leaves an infinity of possibilities open, so you would need to prove that it's your god. It's a good thing though that we have scientific theories that explain the existence of the universe better than "this dude in the sky did it". You would need to know a lot of math to understand these theories, but what you need to understand is that physics works a hell of a lot better than religion does. If you're reading this, then you're looking at a monitor, right? Guess how that happen? A hint: it wasn't through prayer.


So no, the god hypothesis is not even a valid one, certainly not when expanding it to one particular religion, such as Christianity. If only you'd understand science better... my guess is that it would mean the world to you, literally. But I also have another guess, which is that you don't really want to know all this stuff about evolution, life and planets, but that you really, really want to believe in the god you were probably raised to believe in. Fortunately, I'd say, we live in the 21st century, a time when we don't need myths to explain the world anymore. It's a shame that many people don't realize this.


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