Edit:Problem is solved, but feel free to reply with any opinions.***



On christmas I told my mom that I wasn't going to pray when it was time for dinner. She respectfully said "That's fine", and went on with her day. When it was time to eat she made everyone hold hands, I said "I'm not praying" she said "You don't have to, but hold hands". I refused and everyone at the table started to glare at me, then start yelling at me till I caved in. 


I know it's not technically praying if I hold hands, but it still feels like I'm partaking in an activity that I don't want to be apart of. I don't have a problem with them praying, let them do what they want, but don't make me do join you. And I know this is going to sound completely trivial to a lot of people, but it's still the fucking concept. I mean christians wouldn't hold hands with Muslims to pray, so why should they expect me to do the same? I know my sister just goes along with it (She's an atheist as well), and some of you might. But for what reasons should I HAVE to?


When I approached my mother afterwards I merely said "Why did you make me do that, why did you make me pray?". She got hostile towards me, even though my tone was normal. She responded with "You weren't praying, and if you don't want to take part in this family then you can go sit in the corner". I just stopped talking about it after that, I feel like I've just been pressured into something that makes me feel uncomfortable (even if it is a very small issue). 


So should I show resistance and go sit in a corner next time this happens, or should I follow the way of the sheep? 



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Individuality does not necessarily have to do with intelligence.  



I wouldn't have joined hands even under all that pressure. I would have yelled loudest instead. And I would ridicule the hell out of the whole thing.


The intention here is not to spew hatred. It is to make people understand that atheists are not weaklings. We are never terrorist, but we can get badass and deal with it if the need arises.


And your point is?

He didn't say that he didn't love his mum. He wanted advice on handling the imcomfortable, ridiculous situation that his mum wants to put him in.

No, it's not the end of the world, but the story about your mum is, while touching,  irrelevant. My mum died of cancer too recently. We never really expressed many feelings for each other either and later regretted it. What has that got to do with Bronson's problem. Nothing. It doesn't mean that he has to put up with her ridiculous religious ceremonies.


Yes, he is lucky to have a family, but that is not the point.

The problem mostly lies when people don't know how to debate properly. Granted I talk to some theists, and for the most part many of them just want to argue for the sake of winning the argument. It never occurs to them that I'm not trying to change the way they view things, but I'm merely trying to understand and challenge their viewpoints.

I have some Theist, and Atheist friends who at times cannot argue without any aggravation. But once again I find the generalizations of people to be broken when I get into very intellectually stimulating conversations with one of my christian friends. Debating can be fun, but only if you know how to argue properly. 

Bronson wrote:  "Granted I talk to some theists, and for the most part many of them just want to argue for the sake of winning the argument."


Once again, Bronson, you have hit upon something revealing about religion and religious people.  They just want to "win" the argument.  By which I mean they want to "appear" to win.  They are obsessed with "looking good".  In fact, obsessed isn't even the right word.  They really don't understand any other standard.  Truth doesn't matter to them; all that matters is their ego and their social status.

I am finding that there are freethinkers who are just as stubborn, but it is nothing compared to the vast sea of bullshit that follows from religious types. Which is why it's really cool meeting a christian who follows christianity for the right reasons. And by right reasons I mean someone who wants to abolish ignorance, hypocrisy, intolerance, bigotry etc. I had a conversation with him and He said "I don't want to sound conceded, but what if all christians were like me?". I replied "Then nobody would hate christians". Him: "Exactly!". I should mention that he isn't for nor against abortion, gay marriage, and legalization of pot, probably the most unbiased of all stances.


There's this one quote by Gaundi:"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." 


Wow, that's a great quote from Gandhi.


I think that most "christian values" are something to be admired - and I'm not talking about the ridiculous 10 commandments.

In my opinion, most atheists have better "christian" values than 99% of christians, most of whom have never opened a bible in their life.

Reading a bible is often the best cure for christianity.

You do not need to believe in "god" to be a good person, in fact in many if not most cases, the opposite is true in my experience.


You do meet some atheists who appear to have embraced atheism for emotional reasons.  When you do, it is sometimes a good idea to question them about it and let them know that they are feeding the stereotype that the religious have of us.


Stubbornness (or even anger) is not the key.  What reveals the person's character is his or her attitude toward the truth.  To a person of intellectual integrity, the truth is paramount--and not a "higher" truth, of course but real, objective, verifiable truth.  If a person isn't willing to follow objective evidence wherever it leads, then he or she is simply rationalizing an emotional need.

If it's someone you don't mind offending, then I say refuse to.
My sister in law is a kind person, but an ass when it comes to religion.
But we've resolved our differences the best we could, and she asks if we want to pray with them or not for dinner.
Both of us are atheist, and we don't pray, we just hold hands and make funny faces at them while theyre praying...they never know, and we think it's hilarious.
But my parents are complete dicks, and I refused to pray with them when they asked.
They deserved the disrespect.
They tried to punish me by disowning me, but that was actually beneficial. :D
I do this with my family too, no big deal. I do not bow my head or utter the typical prayer with them but i do hold hands. I look at it as respecting their views, the same way i would hope they would respect my views. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. i would give my grandparents a heart attack if I refused to hold hands during prayer time or told them that religion is hot garbage. If my family comes over to my place there is no prayer before dinner and they know this. I am of the opinion that the fight is not with my family or anyone close to me, there are bigger more sinister issues to address, they are just products of a corrupt system. I also feel that some people use Atheism as a hip new face to their youthful revolt against authority and that's when things get taken too far. It's not our intention to try to villainize ourselves to the public but to take a more strategic, thoughtful approach to the issues that most greatly threaten what we as a community and a species cherish most.


I can only speak for myself, but I am not an atheist because it is "hip"or because of any kind of "revolt against authority" but because I believe that "god" does not exist and prefer to not waste my time performing a little stage show when I eat or take a dump or whenever these morons do their childish little magic rituals.


You go ahead and bow your head in respect. I won't bother, thanks. I have no respect for that nonsense, it is ridiculous.

If they don't like it, then maybe it is the first step in learning that not everbody is a brainwashed, unthinking sheep like them.

I am a vegetarian. Should I also eat meat if I am invited for dinner at a non-vege house "out of respect"? Hardly! - Although I know so-called "veges"  who have done exactly that. I immediately lost any respect that I had for them, too.

And with all due repect, your granparents sound like dicks!


Each to his own, but leave me out of it.

You seem very angry but nothing I said was geared towards you at all. You do what you think is right for YOU. As I said, I hold hands with my family, that I love, but I do not bow my head or pray.

A lot of people do follow the Atheist movement for the reasons I stated above but I don't recall siting your name specifically. I was simply voicing my opinion on the topic, not attacking you.


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