Checkout this photo series of a very large number of pornstars without makeup. I'm really curious for some details about who did, what enticement was given to the girls, and of course what you have to say about it.

Below is just one sample:

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It's not about self-esteem. It's about men feeling they have the standing to tell women (who haven't even asked their opinion) how to think, feel, or act when it comes to how they present themselves.

OK. It's your topic, and you can change it or limit it in any way you wish. To be clear, I think that men have always been pretty much the demand side of the "what women should do" equation.

OK. It's your topic, and you can change it or limit it in any way you wish. To be clear, I think that men have always been pretty much the demand side of the "what women should do" equation.

See, this is the problem. You define the purpose of makeup's purpose as to attract men. See, that is not the way I think women see it.

See, this is the problem. You define the purpose of makeup's purpose as to attract men.

Partly true. Men also run the big businesses of selling fantasy-like images and the message "you can look this beautiful if you buy this...". I'll also lump the unhealthy message "be as skinny as you can be" into this discussion.

See, that is not the way I think women see it.

I'll grant that you have good points. It just seems that you react rather personally to comments pointing out the significance of cultural influences in what is considered "beautiful", and somehow anyone who chooses not to play the roles you tout as ideal will (if not should) suffer, or is some kind of tight-assed prude.

This discussion has a very Western (if not American) bias, which is fine, if that's your intention. But as far as "beauty" among humans is concerned, culture varies widely, especially with respect to time and history. Different tribes in southern continents still have a wide range of what's considered beautiful (and indicative of social status), from face piercings to tatoos to scarification.

I don't see anything wrong with pointing out the pressure that's on people--especially women, to conform to their culture's concept (or commercially manufactured concept) of what's "beautiful". Do you?

Make up is like a miracle for many women, especially actors, not only porn

I don't know why people are so against it. It is no different than putting on attractive clothes.

I'm not against makeup, but the peer pressure to wear it. Same for most other, idiotic "fit in, or face mockery" pressures. You keep trolling for prudes, to keep this going.

There is pressure to wear clothing in order to avoid mockery, is there not? Why else are you wearing a beanie?

I have seen my share of very charming women with or without, I guess I am not always able to tell the difference, sorry, with makeup..;p)

Several years ago, while attending PSU-Portland, we had a very charming tall gal move into our group house. She was all dressed up, nice makeup, great legs, then I thought nothing about her again till that evening(sorry Psych/Philosophy). When I got home there was this guy in our kitchen, looking like he had just gotten out from underneigh an old car after an oil change, and we started to talk. Great guy, interesting, funny, rich life, but who was he? Then the next day the gal shows up again, still a real charmer, just heading off to school, but the same hight as the guy. Then that moment of 'insight', oh, WOW. He/She and I had this wonderful enlightening talk about life as a cross dresser, for he/she life was never a dull moment. I could never take my first impressions for granted again.

Now that we're on the subject (albeit with a punk, not porn spin)...

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