Pornography
Since my discussion on monogamy, I have realized that most of you think that cheating is wrong and monogamy is the only way to go (unless, of course, you have an agreement with your partner to be open).
I would define cheating as sexual stimulation, whether it be oral or just plain out intercourse, by someone other than your partner. Some say that watching pornography is cheating. I guess I can understand that, in some cases, porn could cause a partner to fantasize more about the women/men in the videos and find themselves less attracted to their partner.
My question to all of you is:
What do you define as cheating? And, more importantly, Is pornography cheating (especially if the spouse doesn't approve of it)?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Becky Nalley on -
I just realized that I didn't give my opinion. I don't think that porn is cheating. I think it is awesome :)
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Permalink Reply by Wassabi on -
it's not a question of awsome or not... sex is awsome, but if your partner expects monogamy and you go behind their back, it's considered cheating.
i'll turn your own discussion to you - if your partner, who you think the world of, tells you they have a big problem with porn, would you risk the relationship over it?
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Permalink Reply by Becky Nalley on
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No, I guess I wouldn't, but I'd re-evaluate why I was with that person. I would try to convert him to the pro-porn side :)
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Permalink Reply by Greg Gorey on -
^^lol
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Permalink Reply by Tom on -
I agree, Becky. If I was in a relationship with someone so incredibly domineering that they refused to let me watch porn, the relationship would require serious consideration.
The only justification (rationally speaking) for monogamy is that the attraction, loyalty and bond between partners might diminish without it. Unless porn is likely to result in the same consequences (which I don't think is likely), then to prohibit it is petty and arbitrary. Most of all it is selfish; it implies your partner is willing to deny a basic freedom, that causes them no obvious harm, for no reason other than to satisfy a quibble.
The only circumstances under which porn 'ought' to be prohibited is if it is causing damage to the relationship etc. Trust and all the other necessities in a relationship would cease to matter if the precondition of (relatively) free expression was not met in the first place.
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Permalink Reply by Wassabi on
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"Cheating", in my view, is anything which breaks your partner's trust. something you intentionally hide from your partner because you know it's wrong. something that you know will hurt your partner- yet you do anyway. it can be things which you yourself may consider to be ok, but you're aware that your partner doesn't- and by acting anyway you're aware of the pain and betrayal you're causing your partner.
every relationship needs a "contract", for both sides to be clear on expectations, desires, boundaries, do's and don'ts - and sex is only a part of it.
as for your question, if your partner sees porn as cheating, it is your obligation to honor that.
as for the severity? - is watching porn as bad as actively seeking another person, seducing them, finding a secret place to have sex, actually doing it with another live human being - and then lying about it - no.
not even close.
on the scale of bad things you can do to your partner, porn is bad, but definitely not as high as having an affair.
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Permalink Reply by Becky Nalley on
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what about sexual fantasies with other people... not ones found in porn. Perhaps it is just someone that is made up in your mind. If your partner found out about your fantasy, it would surely hurt them. You said you'd define it as "... something that you know will hurt your partner- yet you do it anyway." Some people can't control their fantasies, but they can refrain from acting on them. So do you consider this fantasy or sexual desire toward someone else to be cheating?
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Permalink Reply by Wassabi on
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"and what about this.. what about that..."
there's no end to it. that's why in my view there are only two things at play here:
1.intent - in any truly loving and committed relationship, your partner's wishes should take precedence to yours. your partner must also similarly give precedence to your wishes. for me, mutual selflessness is love.
if that's your initial mindset, the desire to make the other person happy, your whole way of life will adjust. yes, you might make sacrifices, but they are worth it for what you get in return.
for instance, i might see a beautiful woman, and for a moment feel the sexual urge, but that's where it ends. i personally won't play with it in my mind, and allow myself to keep fantasizing.
i'll acknowledge that i'm a man and that the thoughts are there, and move on. because it's clear to me that it would deeply offend me if i knew my wife spent her days fantasizing about other men.
if it didn't bother me whether she fantasized, perhaps i'd speak differently.
also, i personally believe that thoughts, if given too much attention, inevitably lead to actions. if i insist on my right to fanitisize, my chances to cheat will increase. i'm not saying don't think, or wear a blindfold- just be aware of your thoughts and give them the attention they deserve.
2.contract - every relationship must be based on a mutaul understanding. whatever that may be. be it an open marriage, or platonic relationship. people have to know where they stand, and respect one another.
porn, sex, midnight snacks, alone time, who does the dishes - everything should be discussed.
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Permalink Reply by Big Fella on -
it would deeply offend me if i knew my wife spent her days fantasizing about other men.
Really? I'm a jealous kind of guy but I'm not offended at all if my girlfriend would fantasize about other men. I don't see how this affects me or our relationship in any way, let alone negatively. I would rather have my girlfriend fantasize then that she is repressed because of a fear of offending me.
It's an honor to have my girlfriend fantasize about other men and then still consummate love with me. I cannot see how this should offend me.
be aware of your thoughts and give them the attention they deserve.
Sexual desires are there to be enjoyed in my opinion, not to be repressed.
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Permalink Reply by Wassabi on
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do you really believe that desires, when nurtured and dwelled over - don't eventually lead to actions? once again, i'm not advocating covering people up, or self flagellation over sexual thoughts- far from it.
but there's seeing a pretty woman, saying, "wow, she's hot" and moving on, and there's allowing yourself to dream of coming up to her, talking her up, taking her home and doing the nasty.
it's not a rule - but i feel uncomfortable with the latter. maybe i draw the line even further than porn - thinking of another person other than my partner - sexually.
and once again "thinking" is not the initial occurring thought- rather it's the active choice to continue with it. i know that my partner and i are on the same page on this. she too doesn't close her eyes when seeing a handsome guy, but it stops there. when it comes to flowing with sexuality, there's only one object of focus.
i don;t feel like i'm repressing anything. my sexual desires definitely have their outlet.
but above all, there is some truth to religious doctrines regarding sex - in the sense that what we sometimes consider as freedom is actually enslavement to our instincts. and that true freedom of the mind requires harnessing your animal instincts. i think there's a lot of truth to that.
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Permalink Reply by Big Fella on
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do you really believe that desires, when nurtured and dwelled over - don't eventually lead to actions?
I believe that the way in which you handle these desires decides how it affects you personally and your relationship. I think that we both agree that repressing those desires out of hand is not healthy, I also believe however that it is not necessarily bad to fantasize and dream more then just the initial thought of "wow, she's hot".
When it becomes obsessive is where I would draw the line, personally I am not uncomfortable thinking about sex in relation to other women and I am not obsessed by it so I'm not that worried about it.
maybe i draw the line even further than porn - thinking of another person other than my partner - sexually.
I think that it's odd that you are somehow uncomfortable about fantasizing about sexual desires with other people, to me it seems as though you believe that your relationship requires you to be faithful in your mind as well, am I correct in assuming this?
"thinking" is not the initial occurring thought- rather it's the active choice to continue with it.
Fantasizing can provide pleasure and inspiration for my own sex life (in reality) sometimes I "go with the flow" of a desire, sometimes I don't. It really depends on how I feel, what I am doing and how aroused I am at that moment. I try not to get aroused on funerals for instance, because it affects me negatively, but I'll definitely enjoy my dirty mind when I'm on the beach for the first time of the summer.
i don't feel like i'm repressing anything. my sexual desires definitely have their outlet.
That's odd, because I feel like I'm sometimes repressing sexual desires (because it simply isn't the time or place for it) yet I also indulge in my sexual desires as well.
what we sometimes consider as freedom is actually enslavement to our instincts.
Sexual desires can be both enslaving and liberating, it's all about context. I embrace my "animal" instinct because I am an animal and I know that blocking certain desires does nothing to change the fact that I have those desires. I embrace them but not without critically analyzing them for what they are: pleasure or problem (which depends on context).
I harness my animal instincts just as much now as when I was single, and I enjoy my desires just as much. Having a girlfriend doesn't change who I am, or what I am (an animal) so to be happy and to live a fulfilling live I'll have to balance the necessities of my survival and prosperity with the pleasure and problems that my sexual desires can cause.
I can't help but feel as if you are somehow ashamed of these thoughts and desires that you have, did you change the way you handle your sexual desires since you're in a relationship?
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