An unfortunate claim by a Christian apologist and theologian John Lennox is that "atheism and communism is inseparable" 

Let me be very clear here, I do not share his views on this matter. Personally I find this to be an argument based on sheer ignorance. However I would like to get an honest consensus on this issue, I've posted a similar poll over on Yahoo Answers some time ago. 

Please tell me if you support communism or not and what your views on this political movement are. I suspect most of you will probably consider yourselves as secular and not communist (as most atheists in the Westernised world tend to be)

Tags: atheism, christianity, communism, john, lennox, secularism

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Do you support claw hammers? Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, these socioeconomic methods are nothing but tools, but so many people see them as one size fits all problem solvers. Every tool has a job that it's well suited to, and several jobs that you'd have to be crazy to use them in. You pick the right tool for the right job.

Lets say that Socialism is a scalpel, and Capitalism is a claw hammer. Capitalism has proven it's ability to build things and to progress, but has shown a tendency to fail when matters of human life are at hand. So you use a claw hammer to build a house, but you keep it out of the operating room.

Likewise, Socialism has proven to be invaluable in maintaining a good standard of human health, but very bad at running a countries'  commerce. So you use a scalpel in the operating room, but you don't try to build a house with it.

Communism is great for building a military mindset, especially with it's tendency towards using propaganda to rally support, and ensure the loyalty of the troops, but when it comes to building things, and keeping people healthy, it's lackluster at best.

Atheism is a refusal to use only one tool for living one's life, but instead, a willingness to pick the right tool for the job. Atheists go to a doctor for healing, not a preacher. They go to a business to make a living, not to a church. Atheists are willing to defend themselves when it logically makes sense too, not because another people have a militant faith.

The only time Atheists kneel down, is to pick up their tool belt. Let's go build a better future.

I would support a communist regime, if it were truly communistic.

Capitalism brings a variety into our world that would be gone in a truly communistic state. For example, walk into a music store and look at the racks of guitars to choose from. I can't foresee anything like the same sort of variety in a marxian world.

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. Well, even lazy people have needs, so those with the abilities become the employees of those with needs.

What do you think a communist world would be like?

No. Mixed systems work very well where they are managed carefully, thoughtfully and willingly by the people. Mixed systems have produced the healthiest democracies the world have ever seen and a kind and compassionate society most of the world could only pray for.

Which is why america has worked tirelessly to overthrow them !

Christian apologist and theologian John Lennox is that "atheism and communism is inseparable". 

It appears from the quoted phrase that Lennox is reciting the standard filthy insult that falsely equates disbelief in God with mass murdering communists like Pol Pot and Stalin. This slur has become popular, especially among Christians.

Please tell me if you support communism or not and what your views on this political movement are. I suspect most of you will probably consider yourselves as secular and not communist (as most atheists in the Westernised world tend to be).

Short answer: no, I don't support Communism. 

Verbose answer: communism (with a lowercase c) means a social organization based on the holding of all property in common, with actual ownership being ascribed to the community. I don't support this as a method for running a state, but it's been shown to be benign in a small community, like a hippy commune, nomadic tribe, or farming cooperatives. I wouldn't want to live this way, but I'm okay with others who might want to.

Communism (with a capital C) means a society in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single ruler and a self-perpetuating political party. I suspect this is what comes to mind when most people think of Communism: a totalitarian Communist state like North Korea or the old Soviet Union. Of course, I'm totally against this.

"I still call myself a communist, because communism is no more what Russia made of it than Christianity is what the churches make of it." -Pete Seeger

I was taught that "property" in communism (at least as described by Marx) meant private property, especially the means of production. Things like bicycles, toothbrushes, perhaps even houses and autos could belong to individual citizens.

One thing living in a communistic society that would take getting used to, if one came from the capitalist sphere, would be the severely limited choices in the marketplace. Rather than what's available being determined by the wants and desires of the public, they'd be decided by the government. It's hard to imagine this being much different whether we're talking about communism or Communism.

There are elements of communism in a lot of socialist countries. As an extreme case, until only very recently Saskatchewan in Canada had a board of wheat which (in a sense) collectivised growing grain. It was (to an extent) extremely efficient and lucrative for most parties (and they grew some of the highest quality and most sought after grain in the world). Of course this was maintained because that's what the people wanted and there were many provisions to avoid abuse in general and to take care of poverty for those who failed. You have to have an extremely mature market and high quality product to be able to pull this off and a very willing population to try it, implement it and sustain it with the support of a large majority of parties. It cannot be imposed on any sector of a market, on a population that doesn't want it nor indefinitely...and it can never be blanket imposed on all markets across a nation. But in some very specific cases it is possible (as we see in telecommunication sector in a few countries). Why on earth some atheists still believe that Marxist communism is possible on a national scale is beyond me.

I've been a Marxist most of my adult life and an Atheist for a little longer and I've never seen the connection and i have to say its not a question one would be asked here in Britain or Europe.

I've known many Communists who where Atheists and some who where religious, but i have to say i feel insulted that the question should even be asked it feels like just another form of red baiting. I feel proud of being a Marxist. after all we only want to better the world for working people. And really do you think i should give a fuck what this John Lennox thinks of me and my opinions its just a ruse these people use to taint Atheism.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people"

Now don't you think that sounds a tad communistic - if you take it literally?

Ah there's the rub they don't take it literally. I wonder if the founding fathers were as you say, a tad socialist

Ah there's the rub they don't take it literally. I wonder if the founding fathers were as you say, a tad socialist

Just as many of today's Marxists don't take Karl Marx's many antisemitic quotations literally. 

"The Jews of Poland are the smeariest of all races." (Neue Rheinische Zeitung, April 29, 1849)

"Ramsgate is full of Jews and fleas." (MEKOR IV, 490, August 25, 1879)

"What is the object of the Jew's worship in this world? Usury. What is his worldly god? Money."("A World Without Jews," p. 37)

"Money is the zealous one God of Israel, beside which no other God may stand. Money degrades all the gods of mankind and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal and self-constituted value set upon all things. It has therefore robbed the whole world, of both nature and man, of its original value. Money is the essence of man's life and work, which have become alienated from him. This alien monster rules him and he worships it."("A World Without Jews," p. 41)

"The God of the Jews has become secularized and is now a worldly God. The bill of exchange is the Jew's real God. His God is the illusory bill of exchange." ("A World Without Jews," p. 41)

Now, Marx was a Jew himself, born of two Jewish parents. Perhaps it was rebellion on his part against his heritage, or perhaps he bought into the antisemitism of the day.

I've heard Marxists say things like, "Well, when he said 'Jews' he meant 'capitalists,'" but the problem is that he never shied away from using the word 'capitalist' when that was what he meant. 



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