hi just going to point out that the pledge of allegiance was added in the seventies and can be changed. and i want your views on that

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I teach college and I always have at least one student jumping out of his/her chair to point out that "under God" was not part of the original pledge.  I almost always beat them to it!  :)  They also appreciate my pointing out that our original national motto was NOT "In God We Trust" and that phrase was NOT originally on our currency.  I often have a student or two try to stress that "the founding fathers" put those things in place when it is absolutely not true.  The ignorance and misinformation never fails to astound (and sadden) me.

I can't even count how many people I've talked to that insist this country was founded as a xian country, and that all the the founding fathers were xian.  When the Treaty of Tripoli is pointed out, they scoff and completely blow it off because it is not part of the actual founding documents.  Then they will turn right around and use some passage out of an obscure letter that someone wrote where they mentioned "the creator" as "proof" that they were all xian.  They will also chastise me for not knowing anything about the founding fathers until I start quoting page and paragraph from Common Sense.  Thomas Paine was very decidedly NOT a xian and had no use whatsoever for the church.


I'm also amazed at how people ignore that the founding fathers (and consequently all the documentation for the founding of our nation) were around LONG before Darwin came up with the Origin of Species.  If it had been around before the mid-18th century, almost every founding father would have assuredly understood and accepted the concept without hesitation.


But I digress.  My point is that religion as a whole is based on ignorance and misinformation.  And, yes, it is very sad.

The Book: Lies My Teacher Told Me is worth reading. It covers the myth of the Pilgrims being the first settlement and as I recall it said they were chased out of England for being extreme religious fanatics, but that may have been in something else I read. In any event -

St. Augustine Florida was the the first continued settlement, and there is plenty of evidence of other settlements such as L'Anse aux Meadows, and of course a the newer Jamestown Settlement. I think it's important to point out how Manifest Destiny was used to wipe out the buffalo and kill the local inhabitants (Indians). 

Thanks for the referral. I just went and bought it.  :)
As a Virginian, I can tell you that "we" take offense to the misconception that the New England "pilgrims" were the first immigrants--why do "we" negate" the indigenous population???--to the "new world."  The Jamestown settlement predated it as did those in what is now Florida.  Thanks for pointing that out and for the book referral.

I just had a stunning apiphany! What if the motto was supposed to be "In Gold We Trust" and they just missed the "l"? At least that would make more sense than God...

That is pretty cool.  I've done similar things, but tend to just say "with liberty" really loud and then pause to let everyone else catch up.  I've managed to get a few dirty looks that way.  hehe

"underdog" is kinda silly, and doesn't really say anything meaningful. I'm sure it was brilliant as a 4th grader, but I'll stick with a silent moment: "One nation....... indivisible with liberty and justice for all"

i suppose if you wanted to be satirical you could say "one nation under Allah..." That would certainly rustle some jimmies.

It's sure become an ingrained civic tradition.  I like the pledge, I think it's good for maintaining patriotism and popular unity.  I'd love to see 'under God' scrapped, so that the pledge is in line with separation of church and state.  Government traditions which validate the enmeshment of church and state are dangerous and unconstitutional. 


On a side note, I went to Catholic school for a couple years.  Each morning we said 'the Our Father' and then the pledge.  I swear I thought the pledge was another prayer for years!  Even now when I say the pledge, I sometimes feel like tacking on some gobble-de-gook about Jesus ascending to heaven and being seated at the right hand of the father.  Now mixing my prayers up too.  :D   :-)    :-l    :-(    : [

"I swear I thought the pledge was another prayer"

isn't it? it's a prayer to the United States (rather than God). Recital is required, for brainwashing purposes (there's a reason people are so over-the-top patriotic instead of being open-minded; it's because the US Govt forced young moldable minds to recite the pledge every day of their lives). 

There's a wonderful WKUK sketch about it:


No big deal.  From the beginning, I just closed my mouth on the "...under God" part.

Actually, I have stopped reciting the Pledge at all; and when I was a teacher, I refused to require my classes to recite it.  I see no compelling reason why people should owe allegiance to whatever country they happen to inhabit, much less some non-existent deity.  And, in fact, few countries are so chauvinistic as to demand this of its citizens.  They believe that a government owes allegiance to its people; not the other way around.  And neither should owe allegiance to some god or other. 

Here's what our revered Pledge REALLY says: 

...”I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the corporate plutocracy for which it stands, one empire, under a mythical deity, with liberty and justice for rich, white men.”

How’s this for a better pledge:  “I pledge allegiance to the people of the world, and to their health, welfare, and prosperity.”  That’s a sentiment I would gladly embrace aloud.

Okay, Republicans, all together now: "WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY?"  Believe me, if I'd known what I know now when I was younger, I would have tried.  I did apply for a job in Canada, where they don't torture prisoners; don't slaughter innocent civilians for economic gain; don't spy on their citizens without a warrant; don't permit any cowboy wannabe to carry a gun; don't deny free health care to anyone, don't deny people the right to love whom they wish; don't discriminate by reason of language or skin color; and - most of all - don't seek to start wars at the drop of a hat.  Unfortunately, Canada had no need, in 1976, of my particular skills.

Besides, I do love this country; at least the part of it where I live.  And I feel I am contributing more to its improvement by staying and fighting against the things I think are hurting it, like religion, incipient fascism, and blind patriotism.   


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