hi just going to point out that the pledge of allegiance was added in the seventies and can be changed. and i want your views on that

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I stand (or actually, I'm sitting right now ;) corrected.  My apologies.


However, just to clarify, the code you noted is specific to military personnel, not civilians.  To be honest, I don't think it is unconstitutional to require military personnel to pledge allegiance.  Plus, the code you mentioned is specific to how military personnel are to say the pledge, which is what military code is all about.

Military personnel shouldn't have to forfeit their freedom of religion in pledging their alleigance to the nation.

Yep - "...one nation, INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all!"

So here's an unusual angle. I didn't know that the pledge had "Under God" in it. We said it every morning in grade school and it went "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". I didn't know that the pledge I said every morning  was any different until I moved to Alabama..


Of course, they jump at any excuse to say 'God' here. :/

I teach college and I always have at least one student jumping out of his/her chair to point out that "under God" was not part of the original pledge.  I almost always beat them to it!  :)  They also appreciate my pointing out that our original national motto was NOT "In God We Trust" and that phrase was NOT originally on our currency.  I often have a student or two try to stress that "the founding fathers" put those things in place when it is absolutely not true.  The ignorance and misinformation never fails to astound (and sadden) me.

I can't even count how many people I've talked to that insist this country was founded as a xian country, and that all the the founding fathers were xian.  When the Treaty of Tripoli is pointed out, they scoff and completely blow it off because it is not part of the actual founding documents.  Then they will turn right around and use some passage out of an obscure letter that someone wrote where they mentioned "the creator" as "proof" that they were all xian.  They will also chastise me for not knowing anything about the founding fathers until I start quoting page and paragraph from Common Sense.  Thomas Paine was very decidedly NOT a xian and had no use whatsoever for the church.


I'm also amazed at how people ignore that the founding fathers (and consequently all the documentation for the founding of our nation) were around LONG before Darwin came up with the Origin of Species.  If it had been around before the mid-18th century, almost every founding father would have assuredly understood and accepted the concept without hesitation.


But I digress.  My point is that religion as a whole is based on ignorance and misinformation.  And, yes, it is very sad.

The Book: Lies My Teacher Told Me is worth reading. It covers the myth of the Pilgrims being the first settlement and as I recall it said they were chased out of England for being extreme religious fanatics, but that may have been in something else I read. In any event -

St. Augustine Florida was the the first continued settlement, and there is plenty of evidence of other settlements such as L'Anse aux Meadows, and of course a the newer Jamestown Settlement. I think it's important to point out how Manifest Destiny was used to wipe out the buffalo and kill the local inhabitants (Indians). 

Thanks for the referral. I just went and bought it.  :)
As a Virginian, I can tell you that "we" take offense to the misconception that the New England "pilgrims" were the first immigrants--why do "we" negate" the indigenous population???--to the "new world."  The Jamestown settlement predated it as did those in what is now Florida.  Thanks for pointing that out and for the book referral.

I just had a stunning apiphany! What if the motto was supposed to be "In Gold We Trust" and they just missed the "l"? At least that would make more sense than God...

One day, as a sixth grader, I quietly substituted the word 'Underdog' for 'under God' when I recited the Pledge. My teacher glared at me when she overheard. So I started saying it progressively louder each day with each recitation.

One new kid in the class (who I didn't like at the time) joined me in doing this. Our saying of 'Underdog' quickly surpassed in volume the entire class saying 'under God'. We got detention for three days. Not, according to the principal, for saying Underdog but for disrupting the class. That was 32 years ago. The kid I got detention with is still my closest friend to this day.  

I invite my fellow atheists of all ages: do not sit down and be quiet. Instead, participate in the Pledge every time you hear it, and say 'Underdog'. Or say 'Thunderball' or 'Leprechaun' or anything else you like. Say it that way every time. Make sure others know you say it that way.

You really are the 'underdog' in this situation. So you'll make enemies. But you'll make friends too. 

Good story. Funny how those thibgs work out some times.


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