Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on March 16, 2011 at 9:16pm

My parents found out that I was using a stamp that marked "unconstitutional" or something over "in god we trust" and flipped out. I haven't been doing that since.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on March 17, 2011 at 12:57am

Actually, it is not against the law.  It is unlawful to make money unusable.  Marking out "god" does not make the bills unusable as currency.  Therefore, it is completely legal to do so.

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Permalink Reply by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on March 16, 2011 at 9:14pm

I pledge of allegiance 

To the flag

Of the United Christians of America

And to the Theocracy

For which it stands

One nation
Under an evil celestial dictator

Highly Divided

With Liberty and Justice

for Christians only

[Amen?]

 

I don't like the pledge 

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Permalink Reply by Mo Trauen on March 17, 2011 at 12:13pm

The pledge of allegiance with the addition of "under god" is the most completely and obviously un-Constitutional law imaginable--short of the actual adoption of an established religion.

 

http://goodatheistarguments.blogspot.com/2010/11/pledge-of-allegian...

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on March 17, 2011 at 3:15pm

Okay, you do realize that it isn't actually a "law", right?  And there is no law that says you have to say any given part or, in fact, any of it, right? 

 

Don't get me wrong.  I think it's a perfect example of xians shoving their religion down everyone's throats and, if it actually WHERE a law, I would gladly go to jail rather than say it.  But I just wanted to point out that it is not, in fact, an unconstitutional "law".

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Permalink Reply by Mo Trauen on March 17, 2011 at 7:49pm

It was adopted as the official pledge of allegiance by Congress and signed into LAW by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, whose signing statement indicated that he clearly knew and approved of its intent to adopt a governmental stance on religion.

 

This LAW can be found in section 1 of title 4 of the U.S. Code.  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/4.html

 

A law needn't require everyone to do something to be a law.  And, in fact, the Supreme Court recognized in 1943 that it was un-Constitutional to require students to pledge allegiance to the flag.

 

Furthermore, it is un-Constitutional for our Government to take any action "respecting the establishment of religion"--meaning tending to establish a religion as the official religion of the U.S.  That includes an act of Congress that identifies our nation as having an official religious viewpoint.  The notion that our nation is "under god" is not only an official religious viewpoint, it can only mean in this context that our nation is subservient to god.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on March 17, 2011 at 10:10pm

I stand (or actually, I'm sitting right now ;) corrected.  My apologies.

 

However, just to clarify, the code you noted is specific to military personnel, not civilians.  To be honest, I don't think it is unconstitutional to require military personnel to pledge allegiance.  Plus, the code you mentioned is specific to how military personnel are to say the pledge, which is what military code is all about.

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Permalink Reply by Kairan Nierde on December 5, 2012 at 10:41am

Military personnel shouldn't have to forfeit their freedom of religion in pledging their alleigance to the nation.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on December 5, 2012 at 9:32pm

Yep - "...one nation, INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all!"

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Permalink Reply by Evey on March 17, 2011 at 4:52pm

So here's an unusual angle. I didn't know that the pledge had "Under God" in it. We said it every morning in grade school and it went "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". I didn't know that the pledge I said every morning  was any different until I moved to Alabama..

 

Of course, they jump at any excuse to say 'God' here. :/

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Permalink Reply by Gayle Gordon on March 17, 2011 at 11:07pm

I teach college and I always have at least one student jumping out of his/her chair to point out that "under God" was not part of the original pledge.  I almost always beat them to it!  :)  They also appreciate my pointing out that our original national motto was NOT "In God We Trust" and that phrase was NOT originally on our currency.  I often have a student or two try to stress that "the founding fathers" put those things in place when it is absolutely not true.  The ignorance and misinformation never fails to astound (and sadden) me.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on March 17, 2011 at 11:40pm

I can't even count how many people I've talked to that insist this country was founded as a xian country, and that all the the founding fathers were xian.  When the Treaty of Tripoli is pointed out, they scoff and completely blow it off because it is not part of the actual founding documents.  Then they will turn right around and use some passage out of an obscure letter that someone wrote where they mentioned "the creator" as "proof" that they were all xian.  They will also chastise me for not knowing anything about the founding fathers until I start quoting page and paragraph from Common Sense.  Thomas Paine was very decidedly NOT a xian and had no use whatsoever for the church.

 

I'm also amazed at how people ignore that the founding fathers (and consequently all the documentation for the founding of our nation) were around LONG before Darwin came up with the Origin of Species.  If it had been around before the mid-18th century, almost every founding father would have assuredly understood and accepted the concept without hesitation.

 

But I digress.  My point is that religion as a whole is based on ignorance and misinformation.  And, yes, it is very sad.

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