Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by bob spencer on December 26, 2011 at 6:34am

Hi  Angelo excuse my ignorance what is strong and weak atheism?

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 26, 2011 at 7:15am

http://www.strongatheism.net/intro/

Permalink Reply by bob spencer on December 26, 2011 at 8:13am

Thanks.i learn something new everyday.It all seems like semantics to me and i could bang on about that for days. Semantics aside, given space/time/relativity we are (each of us) at the moment of the big bang and looking back on its effect ie Its deeply personal from wherever we are. You are at the centre of the big  bang and others are looking back at it from where they are. when i think  about this its simply awesome . wherever i am wherever I'm going I'm still at the centre.I am a part of the universe.When i look back i don't see any gods anywhere

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 26, 2011 at 9:31am

have you seen dark matter ? science either does. despite this, science believes, dark matter exists. can you see or show your thoughts ? can you weight them ? despite this, you know they do exist. 

Permalink Reply by bob spencer on December 26, 2011 at 10:45am

haha no. but i cant see a teapot orbiting Saturn. I'm always wondering and exploring. My answer comes from my own aha experience when Brian Cox was explaining to Steven Fry on QI where the big bang "is".That to me is "my" evidence of Strong Atheism as I understand it. I'm no cosmologist. I don't need any "revealed truth" to explain my existence.Quantum physics is logical and beautiful...

Permalink Reply by Artor on December 26, 2011 at 10:50am

Science does not actually believe that dark matter exists. Science has observed that there is a force acting on distant masses in the universe that is not consistent with the well-understood laws of gravity. Therefore, scientists have hypothesized dark matter as being the culprit. It has no properties other than those observed, whereas "god" as an explanation has all sorts of implications that do not stand up to the evidence at hand. Science will either verify the existence of dark matter/energy, or it will find evidence that disproves it, and will find a better explanation.

I'm not sure if this answers your question, as your writing is very incoherent. Is English not your native language?

Permalink Reply by bob spencer on December 26, 2011 at 12:55pm

thank you. most eloquently put

Permalink Reply by erik112358 on December 27, 2011 at 8:06am

I would invite you to read this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

or at least this section:

Essential criteria

The defining characteristic of a scientific theory is that it makes falsifiable or testable predictions. The relevance and specificity of those predictions determine how potentially useful the theory is. A would-be theory that makes no predictions that can be observed is not a useful theory. Predictions not sufficiently specific to be tested are similarly not useful. In both cases, the term "theory" is hardly applicable.

Permalink Reply by Helen Pluckrose on December 26, 2011 at 7:52am

It is almost impossible to make positive arguments for the non existence of something. Disbelief is inherently negative which is why the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim.  However, we can make strong arguments for gods and religions being man made and here are some. 

1) The complete lack of evidence for any gods and the fact that  humans generally accept that anything which has never been seen or given evidence of itself does not exist. Theists make an exception for one of the 30,000 gods and this is the deviation from reason not atheism.

2) The majority of gods which have been worshipped are now accepted to be mythical and the same will be true of current religions given enough time.

3) The main reason for the invention of gods has always been that there are things we do not understand and we don't like this - it makes us feel unsafe and powerless. The only explanations we could find were supernatural and we also told ourselves we could please these supernatural beings and have them onside. See cargo cults for this happening in recent years.

4) Now that we understand more about our world, atheism is growing and there are very few new religions emerging.

5) There have been no miracles ever recorded by any scientific means (tho they could be - theists frequently argue that god is outside empirical perceptions but he is believed to have parted seas and burned bushes and Jesus is believed to have walked on water and turned water to wine - these a physical things) James Randi offers $1,000,000 for anyone who can prove anything supernatural but no-one ever has.

6) The gods that people believe in depend amost entirely on where and when they were born.,

7) People of all religions claim to have personal relationships with their god whilst believing all the other who have different gods to be delusional or tricked by Satan. People, like me, who have been theists and later realised this is rubbish will know they have been deluding themselves.

8) Strauss' Life of Christ and Feuerbach's The Essence of Christianity argue very convincingly that Christianity emerged at a time and in a way completely consistent with changing culture of the time and what people wanted and that Christianity has continued to change with culture and shifting values. This demonstrates the man made nature of religion.

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 26, 2011 at 9:32am

It is almost impossible to make positive arguments for the non existence of something. 

but you can make arguments, which explain, why it makes sense to believe, the universe exists by its own, without a creater, or cause. 

Permalink Reply by Artor on December 26, 2011 at 10:54am

Those arguments, have been made, very clearly, often on this, very site. Are you, rejecting the, evidence, before your own, eyes? Do you, have evidence to, the contrary? Or do you, have an overabundance, of commas, that you need, to get rid of?,

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 26, 2011 at 11:35am

well, than i would like you to post these arguments here. 

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