Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by sway austin on January 6, 2012 at 3:47pm

Why does it matter to you so much if one chooses to not believe? I mean, it's actually easy not to. One theory regarding god is just as good as any other as there has never been any evidence for any god.

There could be a blue dragon in my trash can, but something tells me there is not (someone else said something like that once, can't remember who). Might as well just not believe. I don't feel as if I am missing out on anything.

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 6, 2012 at 4:38pm

 there has never been any evidence for any god.

maibe you have found some evidence, that  absolutely  nothing as the origin of everything is the better explanation  ?!!..........

Permalink Reply by sway austin on January 6, 2012 at 4:45pm

I haven't found evidence that something (especially your definition of something) is the beginning of everything, either. Let me rephrase something I've already stated a few times...I'll believe in god if I'm ever given a reason/evidence to. So far, I haven't received this. I don't need some sort of explanation in order to feel OK with everything...I'm totally fine admitting that I don't have all the facts (no one does) regarding the beginning of everything.

Permalink Reply by Jacob LeMaster on January 7, 2012 at 6:06pm

a train that has no announcements no tickets and doesn't blow a steam horn may as well not complain when nobody takes it Angelo

Permalink Reply by Wesley on January 7, 2012 at 12:51am

more compelling than volcano god?  More compelling than zeus?  More compelling than Brahma and Yahweh?....

Almost anything is more compelling than those conjectures from the minds of primitive man.

Did fartman create the big bang with a giant explosion OR is it possible that something we have yet to discover that is responsible?    hmmm  I think the second possibility is MUCH stronger than number one... even though billions of people have faith in their versions of Fartman.

 

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 7, 2012 at 9:17pm

Hey Angelo,

 

No, he doesn't. That is not what strong atheism is, I don't think.

 

- kk

Permalink Reply by Wintershade3001 on January 9, 2012 at 4:50am

That is not enough. YOu need to be able to present a alternative explanation, which is more compelling.

No, you don't have to. Just because you cannot provide an alternative explanation - at this point - doesn't mean that your "explanation" is automagically true. This is a common logical fallacy called bifurcatum logicae, or a "false dilemma" in common English.

Also, the theist "explanation" is not an explanation at all, because it provides no better understanding of reality whatsoever. At least not according to the definition of the term understanding. What it does provide is an opportunity for a delusion, not understanding.

Permalink Reply by Michael on January 9, 2012 at 10:23pm

Is the property of life, which can't be assayed in a test tube or quantified, something akin to some higher dimension, the way time is an abstract dimension? 

 At least  consciousness has been ascribe to quantum activity on the neural axioms by pundants such as Roger Penrose and  company.

 

Permalink Reply by james d on January 6, 2012 at 5:56pm

Angelo, what convinces me that strong atheism MUST be true is following threads like this one where the ONLY answers the theist can come up with are filled with lies and partial truths, and when confronted, they either, as you have done so carefully, avoid the question altogether, say 'god did it' or quote the book you asked the atheist not to say is worthless <that is in your original question yet you consider it OK to use the bible, which i have studied and many here have probably studied since before you were born and are NOT convinced by anything that is actually in there that it may be even partially true> and hold it out to be true while telling anyone who questions your use of it to 'start another thread'.

your propensity to cut and paste the same shit over and over after being told that what is written in the text is worthless information copied from extremely biased christian websites - as if that  is really going to convince any of us that you have any idea what you are actually talking about - and then retreat by avoiding direct questions posed to you by bringing up more fallacious arguments that you can not defend. you sound like a william lane craig clone and come across as pompous and as stupid as he does. for your sake, i hope you actually take some time to study the things which you refuse to accept as answers from the people here who bear with your ignorance and juvenile ways to perhaps hope beyond hope that you MIGHT take seriously any response offered to you. As has been stated on the thread, the atheist would not be suffered the same 'grace' on christian forums from the followers of the god you claim to be gracious... ironic, isn't it.

so, you want positive evidence that atheism is the correct position to live by. well, you have ignored all of the evidence that has been presented to you so far, so i can only offer this. since i became an atheist, the world is no longer a scary place to live. i don't fear dying, i don't fear living. i enjoy every aspect of my life beyond any measure i did while 'living for god' as a fundamentalist for 30+ years. i was a worship leader and a music pastor, i read my bible every day and studied to 'show myself approved' and thought i was a good christian man. i realized that the doubts that followed me my whole life were the questions i had about the bible and the god found there in. i have studied pretty much all of the world's religions and kept wondering why there had to be ONE correct one and the rest ALL had to be wrong, which actually makes you an atheist as well Angelo, if you were wondering. you have found a way to exclude the possibility that any of the gods you reject may be the right one and yours could be wrong. to me, that is one of the biggest issues there is with any god concept, especially the ones that claim they hold all truth as you do.

religion is not about truth, it is a man-made device by which we socialize and find something we agree on that brings us together. the problem is, especially within christianity, there is so much division that many sects claim entire other sects are serving the devil they find within the covers of your book. for me, that is another example of positive atheism in action. ONE GOD should be able to convey ONE MESSAGE, don't you think? history proves over and over again that religion is nothing more than a way to divide the world into groups that learn to hate each other and are willing to die for the 'truth' that they are right that they hold so dear. the repercussions of religion on society as a whole are another proof that atheism is the correct position to hold if you have any hope of restoring true peace to a world infected by the poison of religious hatred.

i doubt this will mean anything to you, but i wrote this to give you a simple proof that requires no scientific jargon to google and no external references to check. thanks for reading it!

cheers!

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 6, 2012 at 6:32pm

i doubt this will mean anything to you

Indeed, your rants do not mean ANYTHING to me. And you have avoided ones more to explain, why our universe could be self existent, without a cause. That hypotheses hurts my intelligence.  

Permalink Reply by Wesley on January 7, 2012 at 12:59am

it doesn't have to be without a cause.... it just doesn't have to be a primitive human conjectured god proposal that is the cause.....even more to the point it doesn't have to be a specific primitive human conjectured god proposal.

It could be something else entirely...   The skeptic is willing to take this into consideration while the theist continues to hold on to their particular version of fartman.

I find it a more honest position to take than to blindly hold onto one of the many specific and divergent god proposals.

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 7, 2012 at 5:18am

The cause must be personal because an impersonal force would be deterministic and mechanistic, not possessing free will. A mechanistic being only operates according to the programming it received from something else. But if the cause of the universe received programming from something else, then we have again not provided the answer to the cause of the universe. We have just found a middle-man. The cause had to make a choice to create and only beings who are personal can make choices.That description fits best to the God of the bible.

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