Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 19, 2012 at 6:12pm

 to jump from dominoes to a non-eternal universe insults cosmologists and physicists around the globe who do REAL research into these matters! If you claim the universe is NOT eternal, please provide real research and information to that claim!

thanks

by the way.. a real scientist will tell you they just don't know! and that is an okay answer!

most reals scientists i do know don't simply ignore the question, but are quit open and frank, they believe , the Big Bang theory evidences a absolute beginning of our universe. we do not have only philosophical, but also scientific evidence, that the universe had a beginning, as shown already at this thread. 

You'll find a long list of secular scientists here :

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/beginning.html

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 19, 2012 at 12:21pm

can you be certain and 100% sure that there are no multi-verse realities out there?

can you be certain there are no santa claus'es out there beyond the Big Bang ? The multiverse scenario is science fiction, without any evidence whatsoever. Beside this, even if there were multiverses out there, they could not exist there forever. 

check out this video by a very well respected author and scientist about A Universe From Nothing I am sure there is a lot in there that can provide you with real science you can chose to ignore!!

i don't know how many times atheist have posted me this video, which i regard as utmost ridiculous, and i ask myself, why atheists believe krauss explanation should be compelling. Since you did post it, what convinces you, Krauss assertions are true ? 

Permalink Reply by james d on January 19, 2012 at 1:19pm

Angelo..

you wrote

"can you be certain there are no santa claus'es out there beyond the Big Bang ? The multiverse scenario is science fiction, without any evidence whatsoever. Beside this, even if there were multiverses out there, they could not exist there forever."

you just made the case for the strong atheist position! thanks! YOU can not prove santa doesn't exist, you just believe he doesn't. the multi-verse is not only science fiction, it is being researched as you read this by people much smarter than you! and i did not claim that they, or even this universe will continue forever. that is the reason for the open system - closed system - flat system debate! but, i am sure you already knew that, but forgot it!

"i don't know how many times atheist have posted me this video, which i regard as utmost ridiculous, and i ask myself, why atheists believe krauss explanation should be compelling. Since you did post it, what convinces you, Krauss assertions are true ?"

the fact that you think it ridiculous does in no way mean it is! that is your assertion based on your very narrow and archaic world-view that clings to ancient texts to show you how we got here. Dr. Krauss has a real degree in a real science and works at a real university teaching real science to real people spending a lot of money to learn real science so they can further the real scientific community with real information about the real universe, not the one your fake god claims to have made.

All you have to do, Angelo, is PROVIDE real PROOF that your god is real, which you have already said you can't, so you continue to hold on to your arguments with NO logical reason other than you want to argue. well, your whole position rests on a flimsy philosophical premise founded on 'god is, therefore' base. you can not and will not accept any facts that counter that, thus, you avoid all direct questions and continue to merely copy and paste bad science that has been refuted over and over again on this thread, you have simply chosen to ignore it or claim your evidence is vastly superior to the over-whelming evidence to the contrary!

keep it up, you are serving your god's position very well.

Cheers!

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 19, 2012 at 6:32pm

the fact that you think it ridiculous does in no way mean it is! that is your assertion based on your very narrow and archaic world-view that clings to ancient texts to show you how we got here. Dr. Krauss has a real degree in a real science and works at a real university teaching real science to real people spending a lot of money to learn real science so they can further the real scientific community with real information about the real universe, not the one your fake god claims to have made.

Dr.Krauss might have a real degree, but at his debate with Craig, he was desastreously incompetent, to actually adress the issues raisde by Craig. In regard of his " universe from nothing " argument :

http://mattison0922.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/william-lane-craig-deb...

Krauss, next incorrectly points out that universes can spontaneously arise from nothing… a point I’m sure Dr. Craig will address in his rebuttal. In lieu of Dr. Craig’s response, it is noteworthy that Krauss states this; this is not a piece of evidence that can be verified experimentally, nor can it be confirmed empirically.

While particles may pop in and out of existence, it’s not fair to call the quantum vacuum, that is rich in energy, “nothing”. Prior the Big Bang, that quantum vacuum, pregnant with energy and potential did not exist.

Krauss should know this.

The quantum vacuum and any matter or energy that might be present within were created with the Big Bang. This point offered by Krauss fails to effectively rebut anything stated by Craig.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 19, 2012 at 7:07pm

Whoa, Angelito, you left something out of your own reference, "the reactionary researcher blog":

"Fine Tuning of the Universe for Intelligent Life – Dr. Craig details both the fine tuning of constant values and arbitrary values, noting that only a narrow range of values permit intelligent life to exist, and that life prohibiting universes are much more probable than life-permitting universes. Though TRR agrees the fine tuning of the universe in a manner that permits intelligent life is truly remarkable, he also believes that the assumption that the universe is fine tuned specifically for intelligent life is a bit circular. Noting that the universe is fine tuned for life would necessarily imply the existence of God, and as phrased is not a good argument for God’s existence. TRR would simply note the fine tuning of the universe permits intelligent life, not that it was designed for it." (emphasis most definitely mine)

OOOPS! Was that a Rick Perry moment?

(BTW, in discontinuing his campaign today, Rick Perry gave Newt Gingrich the kiss of death, by endorsing him. "No, c'mon Rick, PLEASE don't endorse me!" Too late.) And another theist wannabe bites the dust --

pax vobiscum,
archaeopteryx
www.in-His-own-image.com

Permalink Reply by james d on January 19, 2012 at 7:44pm

Angelo

"While particles may pop in and out of existence, it’s not fair to call the quantum vacuum, that is rich in energy, “nothing”. Prior the Big Bang, that quantum vacuum, pregnant with energy and potential did not exist."

and where did you pull this from? can you state your reference for this please

i suspect that if he failed in your opinion to debate with Craig, you may be one of the few who actually believes that! many have claimed that he destroyed Sam Harris as well, but having watched the debate, Sam was not at a loss for words because he could not rebute Craig, he could not believe the lack of intelligence in the entire offering from him! i suspect the same happened with dr. Krauss.

"Krauss, next incorrectly points out that universes can spontaneously arise from nothing"

i am going to just take is as a fact that you read nothing of the links i have provided that can lead one to believe that your statement is false! can you show me where you got this truth from?

cheers!

Permalink Reply by Francis Traynor on January 18, 2012 at 3:16pm

I'm new here but I have read the entire thread and although I think talking to Angelo is pointless everyones efforts have not been a waste of time. I for one have learned a great deal and I got some great links. Thanks everyone! (except Michael/Angelo)

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 18, 2012 at 5:39pm

Francis, RE: "I have read the entire thread"

You have my deepest sympathies, but welcome anyway!

pax vobiscum,
archaeopteryx
in-His-own-image.com

Permalink Reply by Calpurnpiso on January 18, 2012 at 5:42pm

Archaeopteryx wrote:

"Actually, on a grand scale, entropy is continuous and irreversible, but on a smaller scale, entropy is reversed regularly everytime a swirl of spacedust coalesces to form a star and planets, and on an even smaller scale, everytime a car rolls off an assembly line, we build a birdhouse in our back yard, or sperm and egg unite to form a new living creature."

Very true, but try to explain this fact to a person suffering from cognitive dissonance plagued by bizarre Metamagical beliefs? It'd be like reasoning with the mentally retarded, the deeply religious ( whose brains are floating, as are schizophrenics, in a world of fantasy void of logic), children or someone that before one start to discuss science has ingested entheogens.

People do not realize we CREATE thoughts with our brains. Our brains are the Unverses within where entropy, the arrow of time ceases to exist & exist in various places at the same time enjoying space time of quantum mechanical thoughts.....an emergence of deductive thinking using the collective science accumulated over millennia.
You as was I and rest of evolved mutated primates on they planet are born out of coitus using the Brain to navigate the earth using out senses to collect information differentiating between fact & fiction. Testing this information to see if it pass the test of REALITY. When the brain is susceptible to disruption of thought that that erodes the perception of reality inducing FAITH ( An idiopathic anomaly IMHO) perhaps due to Borna virus ( part of our Genom) then Bizarre Beliefs Of GOD delusions take the place of fact-reality......

It is very difficult to convince the schizophrenic his/her Beliefs are false...to the infected they make perfect sense and are based on " true & logic" ( theirs). Exactly the something happens in ALL people of FAITH. Prove and point...ANGELO.

Would you discuss simple math with a 3 year old? or evolutionary biology with a Scientist that had just suffered a stroke?....so why discuss facts with a ChristPsychosis infected imbecile that "KNOWS" 2+2 equals ANY number BUT 4?

All the best. Calpurnpiso, a mentally healthy aka atheist. 

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 18, 2012 at 6:41pm

I wouldn't waste my breath trying to explain anything of the sort to Angelo, Cal - my words were for the rational members of the board. But don't lift too many rocks, you just might find him/her/it.

pax vobiscum,
archaeopteryx
in-His-own-image.com

Permalink Reply by Watchman on January 18, 2012 at 6:45pm

This is going to sound very patronising , I don’t mean it to .

But there is no other way to say it.

If I may I would like to congratulate THINK ATHEIST on the way you have dealt with Angelo few sites have allowed his threads to run their course.

 

Angelo is a serial “Troll”, he has been doing it for years over multiple sites some many times. Always he posts from his selection of collected idiocies , never does he actually post anything original and seldom does he enter into a real debate.

Angelo posts under many names ,I list some below :angelosergip , Jireh ,Javan ,godlovesyou , elshaddai888 and many more.

 

This is Angelo’s welcome message and self introduction from his “library ?” forum…

His history may go some way to explaining his odd use of grammar in the English language. (although I have to admit his English is better than my own Portugese ,Italian or German ,all of which he is impressively fluent in.)

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t29-who-i-am-hobbies-etc

 

my name is Angelo. I am swiss/italian. I was raised catholic, but when i was 18 years old, i converted myself, and since then, i am a evangelic, born again christian. I live in brazil, since 1996. I am member of Igreja Quadrangular church, Aracaju, north east of brazil, where i live with my wife Leila. I am a real estate broker.The intend of this forum, is to dispose a tool, to organize the knowledge of the christian faith, related to science. Beside this, i like highest-end Audio, and cultivate the hobby of manufacture and selling of horn-loudspeakers for domestic use.

ElShamah888 ( El Shamah = God is present , 888 = Jesus , Jesus is present ) 

welcome, and have fun. Angelo

 

#########

If you have some spare time ,check out the list of sites he has trolled in the past ,up until 2010 he used to “chalk them up on his head board” rather like a teenage boy .

 

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/f12-forums-about-atheism-id-te-etc

 

Unfortunately many of the sites no longer exist so some really funny exchanges are now lost ,like the German Skinheads responses and there was a memorable response from a Masonic site ,they shut him down in only 2 pages.

 

 

Here he posts as TSID8888

http://www.achristianandanatheist.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&...

 

Here as DIBRI501

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/40835-how-can-we-best-explain-our...

 

Here as ACHSAH

http://fayfreethinkers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6327&...

 

and even here back in 2010 as Angelo

http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/reasons-why-i-am-a-theist?...

 

 

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 18, 2012 at 7:08pm

Sounds more like ElShamah666 to me --

Just kidding, we love you Angelo, it's just that we'd rather love you from afar - I hear Mongolia's nice this time of year --

pax vobiscum,
archaeopteryx
in-His-own-image.com

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