Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on January 10, 2012 at 2:48pm

This is all easily resolved for the Fun-duh-mental-ists by reverting to the ancient Semitic cosmological model.  The word used for 'firmament' in the bible meant a sort of hammered disk, like a shield.  So in their cosmological model, the sky is actually a firm dome of sorts, dividing the waters above from the waters below.  That dome also had windows through which the sun and moon could pass on their various courses.

Now, realizing that we all live in a giant snow globe of sorts, and knowing that outer space is full of water (with the only thing keeping us dry being a giant inverted bowl with windows) -> the fundies know that Yahweh (or El, depending on whether you were an Isrealite or Judean) only had to open the windows of the sky and our little inverted fishbowl could have been completely filled if 'He' so chose.

It would seem, then, that NASA and the Soviets (and now the Chinese, Europe, and a couple other nations) have colluded in the Atheist myth by showing us astronauts in 'space' -> but the fundies know those videos are all fake because there is no water up there like there should be, according to the bible.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 10, 2012 at 4:11pm

Heather, RE: "the ancient Semitic cosmological model"

The Semites occupied the northern portions of Mesopotamia, with their capitol at Akkad, while the Sumerians, until they were conquered by the Akkadians, occupied Sumer, the southern half. The ancient Summerian cosmological model involved a tin roof, over a flat earth.

RE: "NASA and the Soviets" - "but the fundies know those videos are all fake"

Nay, nay, not so! Haven't you seen videos of the astro/cosmonauts doing space walks? The reason they appear to be moving in slow motion, is that it's hard to get around any faster in all of that water! So see Angelo - you were right all along! How could we have ever doubted you?!

Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on January 10, 2012 at 4:27pm

Ok, there is water up there; now, where do I sign up for my lobotomy so I can join the others in mindless chanting to our lorred?

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 10, 2012 at 7:17pm

 "more water than there is on earth would be required to cover Mt. Everest"

Its obvious there were no big mounains like the mount everest back then......the earth was geologically different.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 9, 2012 at 4:55pm

RE: "there are flood legends from tribes from all around the world"

That's absolutely true, Angelo, and I have a rather extensive collection of them at my own site - not promoting my site, just acknowledging my awareness that such stories exist - but what many fail to consider, is the likelihood that regional floods occurred at various times in the past, without necessarily having happened at the same time, yet the plethora of flood stories are often cited as evidence of a global flood.

Further, if space permitted, I could demonstrate that there isn't enough water in, on, under, or above the earth to cover the globe 15 cubits above 5.499-mile-high Mt. Everest.

The one local flood I strongly suggest you research occurred in 2900 BCE, when the Euphrates River, in what is now Iraq, overflowed its banks by 15 cubits (22.5 ft), and flooded three cities on the alluvial plain that existed there. The flood itself - as well as the total extent of it - is well documented by archaeological evidence, but was immortalized in what if believed to have been the earliest book known to Man, The Epic of Gillgamesh. Gilgamesh is a fictional character who went in search of eternal life, and his search led him to Utinapishtim, a man who survived an enormous flood because the Sumerian gods warned him to board a boat with his family. After the rain stopped, he sent out birds to test for dry land and after disemb-ark-ing, sacrificed an animal to the gods, who - and I'm quoting - "smelled the sweet savor." Compare that with Gen 6:21, "And the Lord smelled a sweet savor...." - taken directly from the Gilgamesh Epic, written 500 years before the Bible tells us Noah ever lived. But Abraham migrated from Ur, in Iraq, to modern Israel - suppose he just might have brought that story with him?

Approximate area of the flood

If you're here with a mandate to convert us, you're really wasting your time and ours, Angelo. On the other hand, if you're really looking for answers, as are we all, one foot in front of another, and can keep an open mind, and don't mind doing a little research, I have info for you.

Try this, by Robert M Best - Noah's Ark and the Ziusudra Epic, Sumerian Origins of the Flood Myth --

and this, Problems with a Global Flood, Second Edition, by Mark Isaak.

pax vobiscum                                                                              archaeopteryx                                                                                         in-His-own-image.com

Permalink Reply by Wintershade3001 on January 9, 2012 at 5:04pm

So wait, if there is a lot of myths and stories about something, that means it must be true?

Poor Angelo... he thinks vampires, elves, giants, talking mice, unicorns and robot assassins actually exist.

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 10, 2012 at 1:09am

Hey archaeopteryx,

 

Great post, thanks! The Utnapishtim narrative is far too similar to the Noah narrative for the two works to be independent, too. They are blatant narrative sharing.

 

- kk

 

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 10, 2012 at 1:07am

Hey Angelo,

... there are flood legends from tribes from all around the world , also from egypt ...

So, does this in any way suggest narrative borrowing to you?

- kk

Permalink Reply by Wintershade3001 on January 10, 2012 at 7:32pm

Its obvious there were no big mounains like the mount everest back then......the earth was geologically different.

@Angelo, you will just never stop lying, will you? Have you no shame whatsoever? All the evidence - radiometric dating, sedimentary rocks, etc. - points to the fact that the Earth was geologically very similar to what it is today, especially the high mountains. And in order to confirm this, you don't even need any scientific articles or textbooks (although there are plenty of them) - all you need is a schoolbook - and from a primary school, nothing more than that.

You are nothing but a big, fat, disgusting liar. I am sure your "god" is proud of you for being such a person.

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 10, 2012 at 7:38pm

You are nothing but a big, fat, disgusting liar. 

does this forum have no moderation at all ? I mean, personal attacks like this should not be aloud at any forum. 

Permalink Reply by Wintershade3001 on January 10, 2012 at 7:43pm

Telling a person who lies in their every post that they are a liar is not an insult, let alone a personal attack. If you lie, be prepared to be called a liar. If I called you a truthful person, that would be an insult to every single person who is reading this.

If you don't like being called a liar, then try for change telling at least a few words of truth. You apparently haven't done so in a long time.

And it's funny how you ask for moderation regarding "personal attacks", when your very first post in this thread was nothing but a personal attack.

Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on January 10, 2012 at 7:48pm

Furthermore, the 'attack' was not 'aloud' unless you were reading aloud.  Try reading silently next time.

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