Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 10, 2012 at 8:00pm

Hey Angelo,

 

If you were living in fear as christian, you were missing the whole point . No christian which understands the bible, lives in fear, even if not being able to live without sinning. Nobody is able to live according to the standard set by the bible for a sinless , perfect life. Who lived  it for us, is the only one which was able to, Jesus Christ.

Things of this nature are always a matter of perspective. What is my misery index? It depends on how much misery I've experienced before. I can't say without a reference frame. For an adherent who has never not believed, it is simply not possible for them to assess the full extent of how much they could be suffering under the mental manipulation of a mind control weapon; which is what I believe religion is.

Science cannot give answers about fundamental questions of our existence. It cannot explain, why we exist and live. It cannot look beyond the courtin of the natural world.

Nor can an undefined "god". But, if I had to lay bets ...

neither do i. I rather know deeply in my heart, that the message which i carry, is the truth.

I don't mean this personally, and no sarcasm is intended, but the vile truth is that people on heroin "know deeply in their hearts" that they just spoke to Godzilla. This is not a valid argument for anything.

I am a christian for over 25 years, and had never depression all these years.

Good for you. I hope someone reading that who has had depression is not made to feel "sinful" upon learning of your experience.

more rewarding in what sense, and why ? do you actually know, what you live for ?

Again, nothing personal, and everyone is different for different reasons. But, frankly, I don't need any of that emotional pampering anymore than I still need to sleep with a teddy bear.

My reward is here and now. The true Christians joy  is to know the lord, have him close , and being close to him forever. Forever life does not start in eternity, but at the moment, we begin to follow and to know  Christ

Good for you. I'm glad it has all worked out for you.

So what ?

I think the point he was making was, given that fact, how do I know the one true god from all the choices out there? How do you? This is a perfectly legitimate question.

I don't know. That is not my business to decide.

Nor is it within your ability, since "hell" doesn't exist.

Never thought that it might be YOUR vision that is narrow , my friend ?

I would reword the discourse. Is it possible that my world view is narrow? And speaking just for me, its possible. But highly improbable. I say this with all sincerity because life is dominated by probabilistic choices like this every day and we think nothing of immediate conclusions being drawn in those cases.

 

- kk

 

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 10, 2012 at 1:05am

Hey Angelo,

 

If you were in the mnistry for over 20 years,you should really know how to interprete the bible,

 

I don't think there is a human alive that can correctly interpret the "Bible"; since the language in which it is written has not fully survived antiquity. There is this linguistics problem with the Canon that ... well, it doesn't really matter since we still haven't been able to even define the word "god".

 

- kk

Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on January 9, 2012 at 12:48pm

[like], +1, awesome

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 9, 2012 at 1:52pm

It's not just the soft limestone that proves your case, James:

In 1994, Peter A. Clayton wrote a book with a rather lengthy title: Chronicle of the Pharaohs, The Reign-by-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt (London. Thames & Hudson. 1994).
    In his book, Clayton demonstrated that the Egyptian Pharaonic Civilization predated the biblical flood. In Clayton's own words:

"The absence of the mention of such a flood in Egyptian records and annals, from the same general Middle-Eastern area where can be found 'the mountains of Ararat,' combined with the archaeological evidence from the Pharaohs' tombs, created before the 2958/2348 BCE flood occurred, reveal that the tale of Noah's flood is a myth."

    Or, possibly just a myth-take --

pax vobiscum,

archaeopteryx

in-His-own-image.com

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 9, 2012 at 2:36pm

there are flood legends from tribes from all around the world , also from egypt :

http://creation.com/many-flood-legends#endRef7

Flood stories from the continent of Africa are rare, but one from Egypt tells of an ancient creation god, Tem, who “was responsible for the primeval flood, which covered the entire earth and destroyed all of mankind except those in Tem's boat”.⁷

Permalink Reply by james d on January 9, 2012 at 3:06pm

again, you use your own ignorance to prove the points we are offering to you!

there is NO record of a flood ever happening and ALL the other references to one have been proven wrong, yet YOUR bible incorporated it into it's highly flawed manuscript and claimed it actually happened. IF you can provide proof it really did happen aside from your christian websites, we would all re-examine our views!

sigh... you can not pick and chose what myths you want to call true when they are all myths! please, do some reading outside your bible and your apologist websites, they have NO interest in the truth!

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 9, 2012 at 7:35pm

there is plenty of evidence for noahs flood :

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t307-evidence-of-noah-s-flood

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 9, 2012 at 9:34pm

RE: "there is plenty of evidence for noahs flood"

You didn't research either of the sites I suggested to you, did you? That tells me you have no interest in learning anything, and I find that very sad. If nothing any of us has to say makes any difference to you (and it's painfully obvious you will never convert any of us, especially with the quality of arguments you choose to employ), then I can only conclude you're here for the attention, and I have no more to give you.

""If a man, holding a belief which he was taught in childhood, or persuaded of afterward, keeps down and pushes away any doubts which arise about it in his mind, purposely avoids the reading of books and the company of men that call in question or discuss it...the life of that man is one long sin against mankind."
-- William Kingdon Clifford --

pax vobiscum,                                                             archaeopteryx                                                                        in-His-own-image.com

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 9, 2012 at 10:26pm

 but what many fail to consider, is the likelihood that regional floods occurred at various times in the past, without necessarily having happened at thesame time, yet the plethora of flood stories are often cited as evidence of a global flood.

but there are tribes which do describe a worldwide flood, like from China :

http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v06n2p04.htm

 THE FLOOD

So it poured forty days in sheets and in torrents, Then fifty-five days of misting and drizzle. The waters surmounted the mountains and ranges. The deluge ascending leapt valley and hollow, An earth with no earth upon which to take refuge! A world with no foothold where one might subsist! The people were baffled, impotent and ruined, Despairing, horror stricken, diminished and finished. But THE PATRIARCH NUAH was righteous, THE MATRIARCH GAW BO-LU-EN upright, Built a boat very wide, made a ship very vast. Their household entire got aboard and were floated, The family complete rode the deluge in safety. The animals with him were female and male. The birds went along and were mated in pairs. When the time was fulfilled, God commanded the waters. The day had arrived, the flood waters receded. Then NUAH liberated a dove from their refuge, Sent a bird to go forth and bring again tidings. The flood had gone down into lake and to ocean; The mud was confined to the pools and the hollows. There was land once again where a man might reside. There was a place on the earth now to rear habitations. Buffalo then were brought, An oblation to God, Fatter cattle became sacrifice to the Mighty. The Divine One then gave them His blessing; Their God then bestowed His good graces.

Further, if space permitted, I could demonstrate that there isn't enough water in, on, under, or above the earth to cover the globe 15 cubits above 5.499-mile-high Mt. Everest.

rather the oposit is the case. Huge oceans have been discovered inside the earth:

http://www.livescience.com/1312-huge-ocean-discovered-earth.html

Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on January 10, 2012 at 4:32am

I just proved that there is no way there could be enough water on the planet to account for enough water to cover Mt Everest & you conveniently ignored that.

With the current estimates of water on the planet, it would take 300,00 times that water to cover Mt. Everest than there is on Earth.

Go check it out - http://www.thinkatheist.com/xn/detail/1982180:Comment:1019661

And the beauty of this is that you can check  the calculations for yourself, provided you have the necessary math skills, which any 12 year old school kid should have.

If you need any help with the math, just ask.

Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on January 10, 2012 at 4:37am

LOL, that article proves nothing. Like I said 300,000 times more water than there is on earth would be required to cover Mt. Everest. The article says 15% of the water on earth. It would take 2 million of such underground oceans to account for the flood water.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 10, 2012 at 2:17pm

RE: "more water than there is on earth would be required to cover Mt. Everest"

As it happens Ashkay, I've actually done the math. Envision a sphere with a mountain - whether Ararat or Everest. Now since water seeks it's own level, the water would have to be at an equal depth all around the globe, for Ararat or Everest to be covered and another 22.5 ft, (15 cubits) above the peak, so now we have to imagine a sphere with a mountain, covered by water. Wait a minute! We don't have to use our imagination at all! (That should help you a lot, Angelo!) It seems we have one right here! (The computer works in mysterious ways --)

   

       The volume we need to fill with water, in the case of Mount Everest, is (159+ quintillion) cubic feet.
 In the case of Mount Ararat, it's  (93+ quintillion) cubic feet.
    One US gallon is 0.133681 cubic feet, or 7.481 gallons per cubic foot.
    To cover Earth from its surface to the top of Mount Everest is - drumroll please -  (1+ sextillion) - gallons of water!
 And for Ararat, a mere (697+ quintillion) gallons of water!
    From the National Geological Survey, we know that there are (326 quintillion) gallons of water on, in, under, and above, our planet.
    But I saw a TV commercial last week that said there were (358 quintillion) gallons of water on Earth, and we all know that TV commercials, much like Bibles, are noted for their honesty and accuracy, don't we? So let's go with the higher amount, just to give old Yahweh one more benefit of the doubt.
    Using the larger figure leaves us only (836+ quintillion) gallons short for Mt Everest.
    But what about Mount Ararat? Surely there's enough water to cover Mount Ararat! Even using the higher, unsubstantiated number, Yahweh would have to come up with an additional (339+ quintillion) gallons of water - clearly twice as much water as there is on the entire planet - if he had any intention of soaking the peak of Mount Ararat!    
     But wait, there's more!
     From How Stuff Works (http://www.howstuffworks.com/) 
we learn that "Ninety-eight percent of the water on the planet is in the oceans."
    Ninety-eight percent!? Do you know what that means? It means that only 2% of that 358 quintillion gallons we thought we had available to flood with, is already at its lowest level and no longer available to us.
    Ah, but what about "the Deep"?! Gen 7:11 (hey, that'd be a great name for a convenience store! But I digress --) tells us, "the same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up and the windows of heaven were opened." But just where is this "great deep"? I gotta tell ya, Genesis is better than Google Maps when it comes to Great Deeps! Gen 1:2 tells us that "darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." So we know that "the deep" is involved with "the face of the waters." Then, Gen 1:7, "God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament."
    So the "great deep" is the part that contains all of the leftover water above the "firmament," you know, space? The Final Frontier? That legend has held for so long, that to this day, we still speak of space voyages and space ships. And it's understandable, too, from a primitive Man's point of view - we look at a lake and we see blue water, ergo, water must be blue - the sky is blue, ergo, it must be filled with water. Except the opposite is true - lakes are blue because they reflect the blue of the sky, on a cloudy day, they're not, but Early Man was not always a great thinker.
(flood info from: http://in-his-own-image.com/2010/04/05/2-genesis-chapter-9--over-th...)

     Speaking of which, Angelo, surely even you can see there's not enough water in, on, above, under the planet to flood it to the extent the Bible says. And you know what? I don't think anyone here cares much anymore what you believe, because as I mentioned earlier, I think the only reason you're here is to get attention, and if everyone, myself included, would just stop responding to you, you and your alter-ego, Michael, would simply go away. Not that we haven't enjoyed having you, but for me, play-time's over.

pax vobiscum                                             archaeopteryx                                                      in-His-own-image.com

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