Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 7, 2012 at 5:42pm

Hey Angelo,

 

As for the "carbon chemistry" post, this fallacy has already been dispatched in a previous post.

 

- kk

Permalink Reply by Angelo on January 12, 2012 at 12:06am

common sense tells anyone who will listen, that Humans MUST form a moral code in order for us to live among our fellow man,

but today we can do a lot of immoral things, which will actually be beneficial to satisfy our egoistic wishes. No need to live according to a high moral standart to survive...... btw. why is there a common sense between all humans, what is right, what is wrong, without the need to teach us about it ? we know instinctivly what is good, what is wrong. even jungle tribes, which had never contact with the white man, know, that kill , rape, steal, lie, are bad things to do..... that knowledge is innate to us. how comes ?

Permalink Reply by Rob Klaers on December 29, 2011 at 1:19am

One day, we will all be dead. If by then all human kind is gone, what we have done, or not done, is irrelevant. In the end, if God does not exist, our existence is void and completely senseless. And it will not matter, if you lived a morally good life , or not. If God does not exist, this existence is the only one we have, it doesnt matter for the afterlife. Therefore, egoism makes the most sense as way of life. Just look for your own . 

And there is the reason for religion. That's why theists are afraid of Atheists. Because we know there's nothing beyond what we see. We know this is the only life we have and we know we need to make the best of it now and live for now.. not for some mythical afterlife. Sure it sounds great, but you should live a good life because you can, not because you're be rewarded for it.. If you're living for the 'reward' at the end, you're no better than Pavlov's dogs with their conditioned responses. 

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 29, 2011 at 11:09am

Because we know there's nothing beyond what we see.

And you know that how for sure, exactly ?

 you should live a good life because you can

And if to live a good life for someone is to steal, to kill, to rape, there is nobody to say that is wrong. If God does not exist, there is no objective morality. Everything depends only on the individual point of view. 

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 29, 2011 at 3:07pm

This is the worst kind of straw man, friend. The very thing in question here, that is, the existence of a god, has nothing to do with whether or not an atheist can or cannot be moral.

That was not the point i made. 

So, in a nutshell, you claim a lack of objective morality but you have not substantiated that, as yet. It is incumbent upon you to establish that fact before making that assumption.

Morals are prescriptive. If there is no moral giver, there is no objective morality. simple and easy.

Permalink Reply by Unseen on December 29, 2011 at 7:20pm

It's true that ethics is nonsense without absolutes, but that the absolutism can only be supplied by Yahweh, or any deity, is something you'll need to prove.

Permalink Reply by Rob Klaers on January 3, 2012 at 1:09am

"Because we know there's nothing beyond what we see."

"And you know that how for sure, exactly ?"

Well, it stands to reason that  No God = No Heaven = No eternal 'reward'. So if none those exist then there is nothing beyond what we see in this live. That, Angelo, is how I know.. 

" you should live a good life because you can"

"And if to live a good life for someone is to steal, to kill, to rape, there is nobody to say that is wrong. If God does not exist, there is no objective morality. Everything depends only on the individual point of view. "

There's the supposition that without God there is no 'good'. Man has always set the moral and ethical by which he lives. Whether it's the Constitution for his particular country, the federal or local laws by which he is to abide. He sets the standard for what is right and what is wrong. So to use your example ... if someone were to feel good about stealing, raping and killing.. those are qualities which aren't accepted by current society therefore it is society which which will judge him. There is your objective morality. Society (aka groups of people) sets the standards by which we live.. Different societies view things differently. Here in the U.S. if you're caught stealing you serve some sort of time in jail.. a day, a week, or more depending on the severity and what state you live in and whether or not it qualified as a Federal crime... In some Middle Easter countries, if you're caught stealing-- your hand is cut off. (or used to be). ...So not individual  point. but societal point of view. 

Permalink Reply by Artor on January 4, 2012 at 3:47am

Nice sociopathic answer there. You see, there's this little thing called society. Maybe you've heard of it? A society that condones rape, murder & theft just doesn't work very well. Even in the complete absence of belief in sky faeries, rules & morality would arise, because they have to.

Wolves, crows, chimps and cetaceans all show evidence of social structures and altruistic behavior. What god do you imagine made their rules? Why wouldn't the god of dolphins be more likely than the god of ignorant rednecks?

Permalink Reply by Alexander Miner on January 9, 2012 at 2:27pm

Actually there is no religious text at ALL that states that rape is wrong. We came up with that... Us humans.

Permalink Reply by Kir Komrik on January 12, 2012 at 1:17am

Hey Angelo,

 

And if a "god' existed there would be no objective morality. In fact, there is and would be no morality at all.

 

- kk

Permalink Reply by Torrey Garcia on December 27, 2011 at 10:35pm

no eternity sucks death is a relief

Permalink Reply by Angelo on December 27, 2011 at 10:45pm

you have not been there, to know how etenity is. But i comprehend eternity as a life with God, which begins right now, and here. Life with God does not suck - rather the oposit is the case - but as long as you reject him, unfortunately, you cannot know. 

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