I know that what I am about to talk about may not be pleasant to hear about, and I sincerely hope I don't make any of you angry (although I don't know why I should). But recent events have brought about an upsetting problem that I can't shake, and for reasons that will soon become obvious - but I will outline them below anyway - I can't confide in my theist family about this problem... they would not understand and would most likely gain false hope of me "returning to the fold" - I most certainly will not!
Let me begin this way:
I would have thought that after 7 years after I lost my faith, and after 3 years of being an admitted atheist, that I would have settled all the "adjusting period" emotional and social problems that I had... you know... dealing with the confusion of having the thing that you based your life on (devotion to God) disappear, dealing with confusion and uncertainty about what being an atheist would mean for me and my life (besides lacking belief in God - although that may be the most basic definition - we all know that being an atheist in the United States of America has far more practical issues and implications and hard choices about how you will go forward with your life), dealing with anxiety about who to "come out" to and when (if at all), dealing with confusion and new difficulties over how to live in a society that makes no room for non-believers and - even worse - rejects them and sometimes demonizes them, dealing with the friends and family that don't understand, may try to "win you back", may ask you (with that inevitable look of concern and worry) "What happened? Do you hate god? Did you stop coming to church/ stop believing in God because something bad happened? Are you depressed/ angry? Was it something I did? I REALLY want to know if I did something to hurt you so much that you took out your anger at me on God! Do you need someone to talk to, because I know a pastor/ priest/ rabbi/ etc. that I think you should talk to! He/she can REALLY help you in your time of darkness." (What I was thinking at the time: Ummm... my "time of darkness" is for an entirely different reason than you think! It's not something that anyone did! My faith just collapsed and my world is falling apart around me!), also... you have to deal with the friends and family that reject you because they can't deal with your atheism.
I thought I was through all that... now I'm not so sure.
You see... I have been going through a hard time... and sometimes I desperately wish that God was real and prayer worked so that I could have some relief from my pain... even though I am fully aware that all that is a fantasy.
But something happened last night that really got me to wondering whether I am REALLY over my period of darkness and confusion and made me desperate for some advice from fellow non-theists who wouldn't try to do what my theist friends and family would inevitably do - interpret it as a sign that I wanted/ needed God back.
You see, I had a rather disturbing nightmare that I can't shake. When my Christian mother asked what the dream was about, I couldn't tell her... so I lied and said that I didn't remember. In reality... how could I forget?
The nightmare took place at my old church that I grew up in. I haven't been there in a very long time although, the other day, I passed one of my old friends, a youth pastor, as I was driving down the road. She and her husband both smiled and waved at me.
In the dream, I remember that the old church that I had loved so much was decrepit. It was falling apart at the seams bricks missing, the steeple was gone, and the floors inside were dusty and bare. The main pastor and the rest of the staff was leaving the building through the back entrance with grim, pale, sad faces. Some were crying. The reverend told me that the church had gone bankrupt and that it had been sold to a local atheist group. - I didn't know what to make of that - As soon as they were gone, a group of atheists I had never met before - but that seemed to know me - entered the building and started partying, putting up anti-theistic signs and banners all over the church and leaving popped balloons and confetti on the floor. The place was a mess. Everyone was smiling and laughing and inviting me to join in. But I didn't want to. I remember that I sat on the floor of the sanctuary and cried. I was not crying about God, I was remembering all the friends I had made there, all the various fun activities I had participated in over the years, and all the broken, forlorn faces of my friends that had left in silence after emptying their offices. I felt like a piece of my childhood that I kept close to my heart had been destroyed. I wasn't angry at the atheists, I felt confused and sad. I had no desire to join in on the anti-theist party... I just wanted to cry.
I woke up from the dream feeling disturbed and not knowing what it meant. Can any of you help me figure out what is going on? Have you had similar experiences? How have you dealt with them?
This was just a dream, but it also made me wonder why I would have a dream like that.
I woke up this morning thinking "why are we having this debate". Skycomet asked for help, and a subjective topic becomes a useless argument over how unscientific it is.
I'm willing to accept multiple opinions on this. It just doesn't seem right for people to state as fact things they can't prove. I've not stated a scientific opinion, because I think this should remain a subjective discussion. It is all about what's happening inside people's heads, which at this moment in history can't be projected onto a screen in the lab. Can't we just deal with it that way?
(Sorry Arche, I don't mean to ask you, personally. This is for everyone.)
Maybe we need a special set of TA stop signs:
'STOP! We are trying to make sense out of non-sense!
'STOP! Dreams are subjective, go to Dreamverse Facebook page!'
'STOP! Theist in training do not feed!'
'STOP! If you don't have evidence, then don't expect us to do your work!'
'STOP! Sarcasm should be expected, but not always appreciated!'
RE: "Skycomet asked for help, and a subjective topic becomes a useless argument over how unscientific it is."
I woke up at the crack of Noon and thought the same thing - actually, I thought that a couple of days ago, but I didn't say anything - I told Sky my opinion, and as far as I was concerned, I was through. It has only been these continuing comments that brought me back. No need to apologize --
To nobody in particular: just because something isn't science, doesn't mean it's rubbish.
Skycomet might have learned a lot from our free-ranging discussion. The conclusions seem to be:
The dream had significant meaning.
Skycomet could benefit from finding another sympathetic community to replace the Church.
AND ANYWAY. There is a poetic science to interpreting dreams. It's not a random process.
I'd still grant people who think it's nonsense their wish. It would be arrogant to characterize every one else's experience a duplicate of one's own.
Also - the feelings which the dream signified need to be acknowledged, and possibly, acted upon.
Correction: science aspires to be 'objective', it is a goal. If it is possible, it might be obtained.
I expect that atleast some of our day to day function(bad pun) could not be easily described by some mathematical model. While it might not be fashionable to think about 'hidden variables', there might be terms that have no gage or measure. The scientist in me wants effective models with perfect fit, but some times must settle for jello. Ever find a soft piece of 'fruit' in your jello?
Or a fly in your ointment?
For the inexact, we have statistical models and fuzzy logic.
A fly in your ointment is worth two in your jello --
Yes, sadly, the best model I ever played with to optimise winning at dog racing was a 12 deminsional fuzzy logic model. It seemed to be breaking even, but you needed about 2-3 hours/day for data processing. I real had other things to do..LOL