Imagine someone walks into a mall and blows themselves up.

They kill several people in the process.

Now imagine who is responsible.

Now imagine the ideology that drove that individual. Odds are they killed in the name of religion.

If muslims don’t have a sense of ownership of the acts of their terrorist cousins then all other steps and well meant words won’t make much difference. It is time for the muslim community to own up and abandon their semi-literate and intellectually dishonest excuses. Give up the sanctimonious claims of victimhood. Own this problem and fix it. Stop the denial and stop appeasing these religious terrorists.

The denial in the islamic community of the role of their ideology in these crimes has persisted in the face of overwhelming evidence. It is only in very recent years that isolated members of the muslim community have started to publicly state its opposition to the violent actions of its followers.

 Take ownership and the world will support you.

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"Take ownership and the world will support you."

Not me I will never support groups who murder the innocent whether they take ownership or not.  Religion is vulgar, Islam especially so.

Bad cops can help sometimes, but it seems we've historically over-played that card.

(...and I don't think anyone's "supporting" the murderers, other than e.g. Saudi Arabia... and Iran on the other side.)

Since the "Religion of HATE" has happily declared war on the civilized peoples of the world, I'd say the time for soft speaking is past and now is the time for the BIG STICK.

OK, but what kind of big stick? Did Bush's version fix anything or win anything in the big fight against hate? Would Trump's version be preferable, whatever that may be, or would it be driven by additional righteousness and blaming the left for failure?

We have our constitution, and we still have world influence, but we're losing respect in a world wher just swinging a stick by ourselves or with no plan for its after-effects is a recipe for disaster, and encourages the haters to rise up.

And now we're enthusiastically aiding Saudi Arabia's rise to world power for what, short term profits in our economy?

The new right is promoting exactly what the left has been fearing all along, but somehow didn't communicate it well enough to keep the the right from feeling "forgotten", or imasculated, or... I don't know, like we've put duct tape on their mouths and it's once again the left's fault for trying to think futher than another gut-feel or Christian-led intervention.
Short add: Supporting Saudi Arabia could well stabilize balances of power over there, and Trump's comments over there did adress SA's role in raising the level of religious freedom and lowering intolerance. I'm just afraid it's probably not in SA's long-term goals, so now *is* the time to up our political rhetoric for religious freedom and freedom *from* religion. It's in our constitution.

Could someone explain what is up with all those "bad cops" in America?

Given that:

- muslims have a huge variety of ethnic, cultural and sociological backgrounds; and

- given that in some cases they share a bare minimum of an ideology,

does that absolve them from contributing to a solution? Does it prevent them from owning the solution.

I think on a moral basis it does not. On a practical basis it certainly doesnt.

What do you mean by contributing to it? If you pray to Allah in an ordinary mosque in Western China, does that contribute to suicide bombings by Saudi terrorists in Europe? If you read the Koran in the Phillippines, does that contribute to honour killings in Iraq? If you fast during the day time during Ramadan in Albania does that contribute to systemic female opression in Iran?

Quite simply there is no excuse for not contributing to a solution. Why cant muslims oppose religious violence?

You didn't answer my question.

Most DO oppose religious violence, just as MOST Christians oppose the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church and so forth.

Again, its arbitrarily grouping people as you see fit, and then demanding them to agree upon membership in your assigned groups...and act accordingly.

Its a flawed premise.

Basically, NON-MUSLIMS become (Became) afraid of ALL MUSLIMS, and, would be COMFORTED by some sort of assurances that the violent groups were a sub-set...and, due to confirmation bias, tend not to accept a sub-set's claims of BEING a sub-set w/o a very strong statement of loyalty to the non-muslims.

WANTING that comfort doesn't mean you can GET IT.


Its like when Christians want "all atheists" to collectively do WE say, hey, wait, its not like we all even KNOW each other...we're all just individuals, etc.

islam has become associated with terrorism for the simple reason that very many acts of terrorism are done in the name of islam.

This religious terrorism and violence is systematic and widespread.

If, as a muslim, you wish not to be associated with this campaign of violence then the solution is simple: condemn the violence unequivocably.

There can be no excuses anymore. Prevarication and attempting to deny that muslims are committing these acts is not a solution.


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