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So I am new at all this. I am going through a phase where I am unsure if I am still a Christian or not. I don't believe in the bible but I believe in a higher power... I just so happen to stumble across this and was curios. I always thought that atheist were the ones who worships the devil and wore black and danced around at night casting spells on people. That is what I was taught. Boy was I wrong. I have been friends with an atheist for like 10 years and just found out LOL.
Anyways, I have 3 amazing children. They are not baptized because I want them to make that decision for themselves. Yes, it did throw a big rock in the water when I put my foot down on that. But they believe in God and Jesus. When asked how babies are made I told them God took a little of mommies heart and a little of daddies heart and made a baby and put it in my belly. When my nephew died 1 day shy of being 3 months I was asked, mommy why did he die? As hurt as I was I said well sometimes God needs baby angels. So every year we write messages Happy Birthday, Merry Christmas, etc. on balloons and let them go in the sky so he can see them in Heaven.
Now that I am on the fence on if I am still a Christian or not, I have no idea what to do about my children. Do I pull them away from it all? We don't go to church because I don't believe I HAVE to go to a church to praise God. But how do I interfere with what my children believe? Should I just keep doing what i'm doing and let them decided when they get a little older or what? My whole family are Christians and God comes up a lot. My family stays out of religious discussions with me because I always have something to say to contradict what they are talking about.
"Because we have learned things since then, including to treat women as equal partners. Back then they also believed in a flat earth; now that's not OK either."
Wouldn't it have been better if the bible didn't include so many passages about The inferiority of women?
You can't just make claims that are against your worldview. Either you get your moral inspiration from the bible and word of Yahweh, or you don't. You can't have it both ways.
Dr. Bob, did Jesus masturbate?
With or without lusting?
Savannah: anyways, why was it okay back then and now it's a "sin".
Bob: Because we have learned things since then, including to treat women as equal partners.
Of course, Bob isn't referring to Catholicism, which still hasn't learned to treat women as equal partners, and requires that Bob hold the same views as a faithful Catholic:
"I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." - ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS, Pope John Paul II
"With regards to the ordination of women, the church has spoken and says no. Pope John Paul [II] said so with a formula that was definitive. That door is closed." - Pope Francis
At some point we choose to believe what we learn from books because we have faith in our fellow human beings, or because in some fewer cases we have personal experience.
The Catholic Church chose to believe something rather unfortunate: ordination requires a penis and that's final.
I went through this at the age of 15. I visited a few pastors and asked them very direct questions.
Me: "Is god Perfect? Without Fault?"
Me: "Then why do natural disasters happen?"
Pastor: "Well...the world is currently in a fallen state."
Me: "I can understand human to human atrocities if you want to use the free-will argument. But animal to human atrocities and natural disasters seem a bit excessive to me. God created natural disasters and disease and ferocious animals which cause a lot of suffering and death."
Pastor: "Well, you have to understand that Christians believe in original sin and that by disobeying god, humans chose this path. They chose an imperfect world."
Me: "How did Adam and Eve know they were choosing anything if they were created without the knowledge of good and evil? For if this is true, then their was no choice, as they wouldn't have known that disobeying god would result in such a catastrophic change in their perfect world."
Pastor: "Well...you have to understand that god is perfect. He has his reasons for allowing Adam and Eve to eat the fruit or not eat the fruit. He specifically told them not to eat of the fruit. Therefore, they disobeyed god and chose an imperfect world."
Me: "So you are basically saying that you cannot respond to my line of questioning and all the billions of humans that have suffered in agony and death, are being punished for something their ancestor did thousands of years ago?"
Pastor: "It is how we come to understand death and suffering that can bring us closer to God. Let us move on to another question and we can come back to this one later."
Me: "One last question on this subject. If I wanted to believe in God and accept Jesus into my heart, and I believed god is imperfect and I was willing to forgive god for an imperfect creation, am I able to do this and still be a Christian?"
Pastor: "No, this is not possible. You cannot forgive God, for he is perfect. If you don't accept God is perfect, then you cannot be a Christian. For only God is sinless and infinitely good."
Me: "Ok. It still sounds like God is obviously imperfect when you look at the world around us. Or allows excessive suffering and death.
soo....Next question. Is masturbation a sin?"
Pastor: "Technically, yes."
Me: "So, when I masturbate daily, I am sinning daily, or I only sin the first time I masturbate."
Pastor: "Well, you sin daily. Of course."
Me: "So by asking for forgiveness for this act, then doing it again...in theory, I may continually engage in the act and continually asking for forgiveness, and that still makes me a Christian?"
Needless to say, after this line of questioning with 3 pastors, I had to start calling bullshit.
But I still wanted to believe...I really did....the idea of Hell was scary.
Well the good news is that sin doesn't exist because there was never a mythological woman named Eve who ate a magical fruit. The story never happened, we all know it didn't happen - Therefore the bibles explanation of sin and the fallen world doctrine falls flat on it's face.
Right, which is another way we know it's not true. An all perfect God would never equate a mass murderer-rapist who raped and killed 100 women to a Hindu monk that devoted their lives to helping people in need.
Christians should be embarrassed to profess such a disgusting doctrine and thank God so many Christians are liberalizing themselves and are shying away from the doctrine of hell.
We are all sinners.
Savannah, I've been reading your posts and seeing you dealing with some of the issues I had to deal with in leaving Catholicism, which I came to see as another fundamentalist faith. I hope you continue your walk to freedom.
Catholicism has had almost 2000 years to work out answers to some important questions, such as Manichaeaism, whose simple two-value logic (good/bad) appeals to immature or stressed minds.
In contrast, Protestant fundamentalisms have had as little as 100 years and they have not developed answers that satisfy mature minds. And so, they need statements such as "we are all sinners."
It perhaps seems too direct to tell you to speak for yourself, but doing so -- not speaking for others whose minds you do not know -- is an important step to take.
Unfortunately it is usually not a nun on her knees showing giving praise to the priest. Many of them seem to be part of a club that has warped the minds of young children into doing such things. As for the oppression of women you can indict nearly all religions on that count just as you can for their indoctrination of children. A plaque on all their houses!
Some help with your research into Biblical contradictions:
Here is a site you might like to bookmark as it searchable under various topics.
A quick video here also.
I hope it's a hot day the next time a priest comes a calling ;-)
Perhaps she could be misled into thinking you are atheist... BECAUSE YOUR FUCKING BIO SAYS YOU ARE.
Most people on TA are honest about their info so that they do not misrepresent themselves... a practice that you seem to reject.
If you are a Christian on TA, that's fine. I personally enjoy seeing other points of view that add depth to a conversation. The fact that you hide behind a specific title on your bio page and then say something totally different on a discussion discredits you as an honest person.
The couple of times I looked at Jerod's profile, it said Christian.