Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Davis Goodman on April 4, 2016 at 5:40pm

Indeed Pope...I left out the all important peer review (common in all academia...not just science). Though you did have Dr. Bob claiming hundreds of biblical scholar, forced under the constraints of dogma and excommunication, inventing explanations behind absurd fables that made no sense...learning from and correcting each other as...peer review. If that is peer review...then a bunch of fashion magazine editors inventing the new tends and explaining fashion faux pas...are peer writers, reviewers and editors. And if that all fails...well...its a useful system that works...right?

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Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 6, 2016 at 9:28pm

What is daunting to me Davis is the sheer process BY WHICH research gets funded to begin with. "Peer reviewed" becomes weakened when funding becomes exclusive. Don't you think?

I am NOT suggesting that peer reviewed data isn't crucial - it is. But simply pointing out its weakness and (dare I say) limitation.

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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on March 31, 2016 at 5:17am

"Being uncertain is a difficult but very enlightened state of mind." 

+1.  I think that sometimes, "I don't know" is the wisest thing you can say. 

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Permalink Reply by MikeLong on April 4, 2016 at 4:24am

@Simon Paynton: In order to be useful, it first has to be true. 

Not at all. Religion is the PRIME example of a world view that is useful but untrue. Religion promotes social cohesion (intra-community), fosters inter-tribe competition, provides a handle for the awe, and provides answers to questions we have evolved to ask (among other things).

It seems to me that religion, in its widest sense - expressed as theism or your deism, is the only reason we have to express this "higher power" nonsense. Erase religion and, not only does the higher power disappear, your "atheist spirituality" follows it down the drain.

But I'd probably need access to some of your meds or DMT or whatever to feel absolutely sure. In my opinion "universal love" is a cocktail of brain chemicals.

@Pope Beanie: The word "spirituality" won't stop irritating atheists until it somehow loses its root, "spirit" - a conscious but nonexistent being. 

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on April 4, 2016 at 5:12am

@ MikeLong....pull up a chair, I got these beers in. (miracles never cease I hear you say!!)

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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on April 5, 2016 at 12:49am

But when we find out that those things are not true, they are no longer useful.  When something is true, and useful, it stays useful. 

The judgemental aspect of God was invented when we started living in large groups, in order to enforce group-wide cooperation, morality and ethics. 

The unconditional aspect of God is true, and it can only be the case that this gives credibility and power to the judgemental aspect.  You don't need to believe in God to say this.  I know this is some kind of paradox but I request that people wrinkle their brows in order to get their head round this. 

The unconditional aspect of God is a fundamental property of nature - the universal pressure for all organisms to flourish [and survive - pretty closely linked]. 

It is universal because it is an active force within every living being.  So it is at once universal and individual - transcendent and personal.  It can be called a consciousness because it does things and has a direction. 

As well as being active in the present time, it is also a result of evolution, which is another reason for calling it transcendent and universal. 

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Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 4, 2016 at 9:03am

@mike RE: Religion is the PRIME example of a world view that is useful but untrue

If it is useful, then there must be something true about it.

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Permalink Reply by Strega on April 4, 2016 at 11:26am

It's useful to tell children that the Tooth Fairy exists, to detract from the scare of a loss of a milk tooth.

It's useful to tell children that Jesus is watching them, so as to garner a mythical babysitter that might dissuade the child from acting badly.

It's useful to tell children that Santa exists and that they'll only get presents if they are good.

It's useful to tell children stuff, but it doesn't make it true, or even commendable. Do not confuse usefulness with truth.

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Permalink Reply by Pope Beanie on April 4, 2016 at 2:30pm

I think the definition of "truth" can vary too much from one person to the next. When a placebo works, does that make it "true"?

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on April 6, 2016 at 9:32pm

Yes, it makes it true to them.  

But not objectively true.  

That's why it's very important to always second guess your lifes positions and emotions.

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Permalink Reply by Davis Goodman on April 4, 2016 at 5:47pm

It was useful to think there was the edge of the Earth where ships would fall off if they sailed too far...in a time of limited sailing technology with limited reach. They wouldn't have fallen off the edge into oblivion because it was a made up story by flawed ignorant human beings. The ships at that time could easily have faced sailors whi starved/dehydrated to death or a sunken ship unable to deal with the stress of storms and oceanic weather. The total myth of the edge of the world was useful...but was there a sliver of truth to it? No. A spheroid Earth his is one of those facts so impossible to deny that the probability of the Earth somehow having an edge we are not aware of is 0.0000000000000(...)000000000000000001 percent. Still a better probability than God or universal consciousness existing. Fill in as many extra zeros you like...it makes no difference. Useful...does not infer any truth.

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Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 6, 2016 at 9:31pm

Usefulness as it applies to making an inference of the physical world around is is not parallell to the usefulness as it pertains to mental health. Just sayin'

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