Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nelson on November 9, 2009 at 8:13pm

check out John Endler's (and others who have followed up on his initial work) work on guppies in Trinidad and certainly Richard Lenski's experiments with E. coli. the study of Podarcis sicula on Pod Mrcaru. (these three are mentioned by Dawkins in his Greatest Show on Earth) if you haven't already then certainly mention the Galapagos finches. what else... Flavobacterium Sp. K172 too- that's the nylon eating bacteria.

hope that helps some!

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Permalink Reply by Cameron on November 9, 2009 at 8:31pm

Are you sure your aunt knows what the scientific method actually entails?

* Ask a Question
* Do Background Research
* Construct a Hypothesis
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
* Communicate Your Results

Which step says "observe it happening"?

I'd ask you aunt to provide an alternative and superior explanation for the diversity of lifeforms on the planet that is also supported by the evidence.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on November 9, 2009 at 9:22pm

I started with the list for the scientific method, and when she came back with the claim that creation-scientists go through the same steps. I elaborated further (and pointed out where creation-scientists usually breakdown), and in detailing I used the term "observe" as part of the testing/experiment step. So she threw back at me that no evolution has ever been observed.

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Permalink Reply by Christian Thompson on November 9, 2009 at 9:38pm

Without evolution children would simply be exactly half one and half the other of their parents, rather than more like one than the other.

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Permalink Reply by Aric on November 9, 2009 at 11:18pm

Here's a good link to a story about rapid evolution in the Congo River.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Evolution-in-the-Deepe...

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Permalink Reply by Ashli Axtell on November 9, 2009 at 11:46pm

This one is from 2007, but it's a very rapid evolutionary change in a species of butterfly.

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Permalink Reply by Shine on November 10, 2009 at 1:04pm

I don't know if this is a good example or not, but what about domesticated dog breeds? Dog breeders select certain members of the species for the purpose of their desirable characteristics. Of course, the driving force here is the intention of the breeder rather than the impartiality of natural selection and it may be confused as promoting the concept of a "designer" underlying evolution. Still, it might provide a real-world analogy to talk about some of the principles of genetic variability and selection.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on November 10, 2009 at 1:33pm

Thanks Shine; I do have a paragraph on human selection illustrating evolution on domesticated animals.

She is mostly of the 'young earth' mindset from everything she has argued so far; she doesn't prescribe to 'the designer shaping evolution.' So I don't think that will be an issue, but I'm wording it carefully.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on November 10, 2009 at 1:41pm

Thanks for the great responses so-far everyone!

I've decided to do a slightly different reply before proceeding with the list you're helping me compile.

Can I ask a few questions to try to establish a baseline?

1. Do you think that more offspring are produced than are able to survive to maturity and reproduce?

2. Do you think that offspring resemble their parents, but have genetic variation that makes them unique?

3. Do you think that an offspring with a trait that helps them survive (collecting food, defending/escaping from predators, surviving the environment, or attracting a mate) will be more likely to reproduce and have offspring of its own?

I think that most who oppose evolution don't actually understand it even at the most basic premise. Is this honest asking her these questions this way? I don't want to be dishonest about it, but almost want to 'trick' her into agreeing with these, and then try to ease into 'that's evolution.' Are there any notable flaws in my wording?

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on November 10, 2009 at 1:49pm

i think that's an excellent tact to take.
this might help illustrate the point once she agrees to those three questions:

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on November 10, 2009 at 1:55pm

Thanks Nelson.

And great picture, I'm sure I'll be able to put that to use.

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Permalink Reply by Brian on November 10, 2009 at 3:17pm

This is clear and succinct, a graphical representation of evolution by natural selection. Most on this website find this easy to see, even the word 'inference' may be a little weak for those of us who have witnessed this process in action, in marine life, for example. I fear those who, for religious reasons, wish to ignore this simple fact will continue to for, to them, groping in the darkness of ignorance is more comfortable than a mortal reality, they have been indoctrinated to dread.

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