This article is SO relevant for me because I recently cut someone out of my life because I no longer wanted to hold my tongue on my Facebook and Twitter page for fear of offending her AND because I didn't want to hear her mouth whenever I criticized religion and theism.
I'll try my best to respect people but respecting religion...nah.
My former friend just couldn't get this through her head and unfortunately, I had to cut her off.
I agree with you, maybe I had chosen wrong words, what I tried to say is what you said. If someone kills someone else I will still consider him a human being and I will punish him but not with force, not with physical punishment but with some kind of work that will make him useful to society, to make him reflect on what he did and to become an example to the everyone.
We hide offenders behind fences, we don't show how they are punished (except in exaggerated ways on television or films) at least not all types of crime. Of course some will say, but they are dangerous, you can't send them into community and except them to behave. To this I have no answer.
Most of us in North America are accustomed to the fact that our present system of dealing with those who break our laws does not work. Most of us also tend to say something like, "But what else can we do?" We do not, however, ask that question seriously, very often.
One of the things that we can "do" is to look around the world and see if anyone else has any answers that might be of some help to us. Since it is common for us to "believe" that we have the most advanced society in the world (not even nearly true) we tend to ignore other countries' solutions.
Any search of the world for such answers about what to "do" with lawbreakers will produce some amazing results. We, in North America have an 87% recidivism rate - 87% of those we send to prison the first time will end up back there again. Not what one would call "success".
The Scandinavian countries are said to have a 5.5% recidivism rate. What does that tell you? Do you think our government ought to take a serious look at what those folks are doing to have such a high success rate? Yeah, so do I. But they won't. imprisoning people is "big business" in North America. Too many people, including our politicians, are making big bucks from this system.
In order to get our governments to adopt a better system we'd have to convince them that, a) the system really IS better, and b) that they could make just as much "under-the-table" money from any new system as they do now, and c) that it is worthwhile trying to get the population of the country to accept that "punishment alone" doesn't work. And this is a big problem. Since a high percentage of our population are members of religions that still "believe in" and approve of "punishment, punishment, punishment" it would be very difficult to get them to examine that "belief" rationally.
This is only one of the examples I could give you in regard to how "beliefs" - all kinds of beliefs - are harming us and our nations. To me it is imperative that we atheists be in the forefront in advocating the replacement of belief with reason at ALL levels of our society, not just in the religious areas.
Jesus a Christian?-fail! He was a religious Jew (if he existed) and never intended to create a new religion. He stated that there is only one God and in the Jewish faith trying to make yourself out as a god is blasphemous in the extreme and punishable by stoning. The so-called early Christians (followers of Jesus) were led by James, Jesus' brother who ultimately chased Paul away for preaching his own idiosyncratic version of Jesus' life. At this stage the term 'Christ', (from Greek, Cristos) was probably not commonly used. It became embedded by the guys who wrote the gospels in Greek. (Jesus' language was Aramaic and most of his disciples were illiterate)
I think it was Matthew who wrote (not Matthew the Disciple, but a Greek-speaking Jew) who saw Jesus' teachings as a further enhancement of Jewish faith and it's ultimate pinnacle. Paul made the Christian religion open to Gentiles who for the first time were also promised salvation (this was the exclusive privilege of Jews, followers of Yahweh/Jehovah at that stage).
I have a couple of points about this comment.
First let me ask: Do you also deny respect to someone who has cancer? Or to someone who is suffering psychosis? What about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder such as that suffered by our troops who have seen action recently?
I would have a hard time giving someone who rapes or molests anything more than a very, very minimum degree of basic respect. Yet I know that the disorders they are experiencing are mental health problems.
I have two choices. I can refuse them any respect as human beings. This allows me to call them derogatory names and beat or kill them. That solves their problem but I'm afraid it would cause one for me.
Or I can allow some tiny bit of respect for their humanity to mix with my sympathy for the mentally ill, and try to encourage our governments to fund research that might lead to a way to remedy their illness. We don't know a great deal about this kind of aberration yet. BUT we DO know that in many, many cases it stems from having been victims of such behaviour while they were children. It is a horrible fact that we don't do very much for children so abused. We just let them grow up bent and twisted. Then when they act this way we just want to bury them inside some prison forever. I wonder if it wouldn't be better if we just euthanized any child victim of such abuse so that they can't grow up to be twisted and sick perpetrators of it.
Yeah. I can hear you scream from here. THE CHILD IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM!! You'd never agree to that child being put to death. You'll wait until that child grows up, hurts other children, and THEN you'll want them put to death or incarcerated for life.
We, as a society, NEED to solve this problem. We aren't doing it. We are so afraid of "being soft" on such mentally ill people that we won't even try to cure this illness through research by trained professionals. Do you know that it costs about $80,000 per year to keep someone in jail? Do you know that it costs only 2/3rds of that to keep someone in a mental hospital and do research on them? But we don't do this. And our society and our children are paying the price for us not doing this.
Perhaps this is a time when both respect for another person who is ill and self-respect should join together to lick this problem. Just as with the religious, we DO NOT have to respect their ways to still have basic respect for their humanity.
What do you think?
I spy a false dichotomy!
Speaking of which, aren't sex registries filled with people neither dead, institutionalize, or imprisoned?
If you do indeed spy such, please identify it; if your lordship please.
Sex registries won't do you, or anyone else, any harm. Those who have been released into the society, untreated, unchanged, and likely to do harm again, will.
Have you ever checked on how many of them are in your neighbourhood? If not, you're in for a shock!
I don't see dichotomy ether, probably because I don't know what dichotomy is :P
I forgotten about people who kill because they have no options, I mean, the dog did tell him to kill people, now if dog tells me to kill someone, I first sh*t my pants and then bloody go outside and kill someone ;D
False dichotomy--A type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two choices are offered when there are additional options. False dichotomy can arise intentionally when the fallacy is used to attempt to force a choice.
Often the favored attack choice of theists, especially concerning abortion issues.
Regarding sex registries, I think the only people who should be on them are repeat offenders.
It bothers me that a guy who is 21 and has a 17 year old girlfriend is labeled a sex offender for life.
Sometimes the parents are okay with the age difference but the one time they get pissed off, they can press charges. That's pretty messed up if you ask me.
I agree with the false dichotomy.
Just because I don't respect someone doesn't automatically mean I will call them all sorts of names.
I often call people many names on the road because I have HORRIBLE road rage. ::shoulder shrug::
I would love to see your evidence that rapists suffer from a mental illness.
I agree that pedophelia is an illness but what about the male college student who date rapes girls?
I very much doubt the guy who raped me and the guy who molested me suffer from a mental illness. I also think by slapping "mental illness" on the issue, it absolves the person from responsibility. Some mental illnesses absolve the person from responsibility but many rapists and child molesters KNOW what they are doing and they KNOW it's wrong.