New Debate Topic: The Historicity of Jesus
Before I begin with the Debate topic... let's set some ground rules:
Mods! Please correct anyone who engages in these things! Thanks a bunch! ^_^
1. Theists are welcome to participate, with one important rule - NO PROSTHELYTIZING!!! - In other words... this debate is to strictly be a debate on the historicity of Jesus as a man, ONLY!! DO NOT use this forum to push your ideas of Jesus as the "son of god" or "god himself" ... please leave that to another debate!
2. BE POLITE!! NO TROLLS ALLOWED!! [Atheist trolls are not allowed as well!]
3. Please be respectful when providing a dissenting opinion to another individual.
Thank you!
Alright... here's the topic.
For many years the historicity of Jesus as a man has remained virtually undisputed among historians. However, I have noticed in recent years a rising number of historians [admittedly still a minority] who have expressed doubt that Jesus ever existed at all.
What do you all think?
[P.S. If you can... please provide evidence and sources for your opinions].
Tags: christ, debate, did, exist, he, historicity, history, intellectual, jesus, not, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Perthy on -
No one knows beyond a doubt whether or not the man jesus (who the myths and legends are based on) actually lived or if he was a figment of the imagination. For me, I think he was a real character back then, who had a small following who, after he died, created elaborate stories about him.
Probably smoked a lot of weird things to come up with those stories.
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Permalink Reply by Matt Coulthurst on -
Follow the messiah's comma.
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Permalink Reply by Perthy on
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I think my head turned 360 degrees to one side and my eyes were crossed by the end of the last few statements. This new logic is a little more difficult to follow than I'm used to. Apparently I need to read more.
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Permalink Reply by Perthy on
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perfect :) because he loves being tortured and dying. I think he gets a little sumpin-sumpin out of it.
Where the hell did that picture come from?! It's hilarious!
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Permalink Reply by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on -
WTH? o_o He was joking bruce. No one thinks that Jesus was a Neanderthal.
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Permalink Reply by Matt Coulthurst on
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Good grief Bruce. I'll try and be gentle:
NO ONE HERE THINKS THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD.
NO ONE HERE THINKS THAT JESUS WAS BORN OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION.
NO ONE HERE THINKS THAT JESUS WALKED ON WATER.
NO ONE HERE THINKS THAT JESUS IS ANY KIND OF SAVIOR.
NO ONE HERE BELIEVES IN GOD.
(There are a few exceptions to the above statements but those individuals are pretty easy to spot)
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Permalink Reply by Matt Coulthurst on
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Pardon? Believers in what?
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Permalink Reply by Matt Coulthurst on
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Well there's a loaded question if ever I saw one.
Bruce, my philosophical worldview does not include "belief" in anyone per se. If I must have labels I am a secular humanist and I subscribe to Naturalism as the best philosophical stance from which to describe the universe. I self identify as a skeptic.
Did that answer your question? -
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Permalink Reply by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on
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Actually, if you look at the original post, you will see that I actually forbade any debate on the "divinity" of Jesus Christ. I think Bruce is confusing these two different subjects... but in any case, lets all stay out of the "divinity" debate. It is a topic that wil go no where and is unworthy of intellectual discussion because of it's completely bankruptness of any thing resembling evidence. Let's stick to the historicity of Jesus only. ^_^
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Permalink Reply by Perthy on
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OK, let's try this:
Bruce thinks that Jesus never existed as a person.
Other people think it's possible he could have existed, but as a person, nothing supernatural.
Who gives a damn? If he *was* a person, he's DEAD. If he never existed, he still existed in stories.
This is just another example of the herd of cats. We all basically believe the same thing - there is no supernatural force, no "magic", no levitation up into heaven, no talking animal (snake or donkey).
Agree to disagree, K?
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Permalink Reply by Lekatt on -
When I was in college, about 40 years ago, I wrote a paper on the historical Jesus. I had no trouble finding sources for the paper, three of them as I recall. Josephus, was one, but don't recall the others. I don't doubt that Jesus was an historical figure.
Using logic, we have 4 gospel authors that have written what He said, and they don't agree. Then in the Dead Sea scrolls we find Thomas writing about Jesus' sayings that are different again. You might try to argue that all writers had an ancient copy they borrowed from, but since there is no evidence of such a document you would only be guessing.
Please don't let your desire to prove He didn't exist color your evidence, just stick to the facts.
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