I just came across this on Wikipedia, and I am still reeling in astonishment. It's called the 'Omnipotence Paradox.' Just thought I'd throw it on here to give you guys some quick and easy ammo against theists. I'll give you the scientific idea, then the example (aka 'Paradox of the Stone').
If a being can perform such actions, then it can limit it's own ability to perform such actions. By this arguement, it cannot perform all actions, yet, on the other hand if it cannot limit it's own actions, then that is something it cannot do, and therefore, is not omnipotent.
And now for the easy version:

Could god create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it? If so, he would then cease to be omnipotent. If not, he was not omnipotent to begin with.

Thank you for your time and patience. Another win for the Rationalists brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Atheist,


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I never thought about that ! Six days ! What a goldbrick !
The God-gets-stoned argument comes from the middle ages. It destroys the concept of “God” as “Pantocrator” = ‘all ruling (divinity)’.

More importantly, the simple looking dilemma destroys the xian (jewish, moslem) claim that a <i>negative existential statement</i> about “God” cannot be proven. The answer is “God does not exist” can be proven -- assuming that the xian (jew or moslem) claims that “God” has absolute attributes or is a necessary being. Just follow the logic:

<b>Can the statement ‘God does not exist’ be proven? Sure. Sometimes.</b>

First, dear xian what is your concept of “God”. Are this alleged divinity’s powers unlimited?

1.  First the word 'God' has too many (dictionary) meanings to be used without a context with specifies which is being discussed. The vicious ambiguity of the word 'God' allows apologists to slide from one meaning to another without acknowledging it. Basically, believers indulge in the fallacy of ambiguity. The anti-supernaturalist must close that loophole.

2. Second there are different concepts of an alleged God. Obviously, the meanings of the word 'God' and the concept of a God can be related but they are not identical.

2.1 Religious philosophers and theologians have proposed concepts of God in which it appears as some sort of necessary being -- the God of Anselm of Canterbury (12th century CE) for example. Of course this being which can not not-exist goes back to Plato (5th-4th century BCE) from whom it was expropriated by early xians among whom is Origen (early 3rd century CE).

God = concept (that being which can not not-exist) assumes a status somewhat like an entity defined in geometry (and in mathematics generally). For example the alleged concept of a 'square-circle' is incoherent. No such entity can exist. This alleged God can be proven not to exist.

2.2 God = concept (that being which is claimed to be ‘Pantocrator’ -- all ruling being) -- which usually is alleged to be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-benevolent can not exist. There are two ways to show that the panto-being fails conceptually.

2.2.1 Phrases which purport to be absolutely absolute-adjectives appear to be proper members of rational discourse but they are impermissible. All absolute adjectives are such only within a specified context -- the brightest person I’ve ever met, the largest galaxy in the visible universe -- this limitation was known even by medieval theologians.

Now to their pointed question (a veiled dilemma): ‘Can God -- the all-powerful in this case -- create a stone too heavy for him to lift?

If God can do so; then he is not all-powerful. If God can not do so; then, likewise he is not all-powerful. Thus , God can not be all-powerful. Or, an adjective-phrase ‘is too heavy to lift’ cannot be used meaningfully in the absolute -- it must be limited to a definite context. In which case, once again God can not be all-powerful, not as a matter of fact. But as a matter of conceptual coherence.

Amusingly, if you imagine that the phrase ‘all-powerful’ can be used absolutely without a context, you run up against the very same brick wall. The phrase ‘all-powerful’ is incoherent; it too must be contextually limited. The phrase ‘God-the-Almighty’ crosses the border into linguistic coherence. No matter how theologians wiggle, such this God-concept ends up being incoherent.

Can the existence of “God” be disproved -- that is, can a claim that ‘God exists’ be shown to be logically incoherent -- not just false, but necessarily false? Yes, it can. What concept of God will the true believer try to defend -- once known, it can be attacked. Sometimes “God” simply can not exist.

the anti_supernaturalist
Wow!  That was quite a treatment.

Hi Rick. Your breath taking discourse hangs on the lexical cliff if ignominality.  How do these philosophers deal with non symbolic (words) conscious thought/beliefs? 


the confirmed ignorant----- 

I am with you on this.  Sometime my life is just one big quest to demonstrate that one can be good and moral without swearing allegiance to the cosmic jewish zombie and his ilk.

I would say that a god would have certain qualities in his/her/their essence...let's call it an essence 'box'. Love, veracity, justice, omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, et al.  He/she/they would have to necessarily 'limit' itself from performing any one of them that violates any of the other qualities. That, to a degree, makes sense.  But, if a god has lived forever in time 'past' and could know what he would be doing trillions and trillions and trillions of years later, to-wit:  creating a race of angels and those human beings 'lower' than the angelic estate...why wait?  It makes no sense. What would he/she/they do in the interim...talk amongst themselves about 'god knows what'?

 If I can imagine a god that has never 'not' existed, then I should have no problem contemplating a universe that has ALWAYS been here  and will ALWAYS be here...no beginning..no end.  Does that bother and/or annoy and/or frustrate me?  Not in the least. The universe is never ending in scope...the miscroscopic world is never end in scope because if you say you've reached the end point in either direction...then WHAT's beyond that?

Here is another one of similar ilk.


In regards to prayer, why would an all-knowing, all-loving being need to be asked to do something that would benefit a human before it will act?  And if it does not need these petitions in order to act then what is the use of prayer?


If its reasons are unknowable by humans then how can humans possibly determine that it is, indeed, all-knowing and all-loving?  Are these imputed attributes simply the fallible conjectures of humans on the basis of incomplete evidence or the mere say-so of the supposed being according to its prophets? 

Rosemary, You can pray to a tree or even  a stump & get exactly the same result .

I do believe that many theists do gain 'strength' from prayer, but not because some guy-in-the-sky is listening and either does or does not take heart. When one prays, he or she is basically communicating with themselves, both consciousness and subconscious.  It's a motivator in some sense, a plea in others, a confession of one's errors in life, etc.

 Inotherwords, prayer is, in essence, taking one's own counsel.  Theists believe they're talking to a son of god who is sitting 'at the right hand' of god the designated father (planner) with the holy spirit (the inspirer)seated at the father's left side....all in the 'throne room' theater. It's imagery that's used as a crutch to inspire..to create an alternate reality.

 Little do they recognize that each individual does take counsel with him/herself. We acknowledge mistakes and virtues to ourself.  It's a feedback. That's all it is, but it's a very important part of one's conscious being.

my favourite argument in this one:


Of course, "God works in mysterious ways. Surely this imperfection serves its purpose in the grand scheme of things." is a typical answer you would get from those theists who are even open enough to listen to and look at this video.


Still, a perfect example of the improbability of Creationism

I have heard the expression : The lord works in mysterious ways, his blunders to perform.


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