Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nelson on December 2, 2011 at 5:00pm

First, research indicates that people are more tolerant of us and accepting as they become more aware of us. The more vocal we are, the more people are aware of us, the more tolerant and accepting people are of us.

Second, there aren't too few of us. We're the third largest group in the US of any group of those asked about their religious beliefs after Catholics and Baptists

Third, this:

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Permalink Reply by Ralph Oswald on December 2, 2011 at 7:23pm

Nelson, 

This is an excellent choice as a reply. I watched this the other day. Greta gets an A+ for laying out the most egregious of religious transgressions in modern times in a concise, clear and spirited manner. 

Keith, 

Sit your girlfriend down and have her watch Greta lay it down, in no uncertain terms. Maybe, just maybe, she will begin to understand.

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Permalink Reply by Teashia Stennet on December 2, 2011 at 8:21pm

If only 5% of American's would vote for an Atheist how is it that Atheist could be the third largest group in America.. ?

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on December 2, 2011 at 8:28pm

You mean how could a segment of society be a significant percentage of society as a whole while at the same time one of their number wouldn't be voted for by the rest of society?

Women are approximately 51% of society and it wasn't that long ago that not only wouldn't anyone vote for them, they couldn't even vote themselves.

More recently, black people made up a significant percentage of society and no one would vote for one of their number.

The size of the group doesn't equate with the extent of the group's popularity.

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Permalink Reply by Dave on December 2, 2011 at 5:21pm

I'll preface my reply by saying that I feel that living in the UK has spoiled me in regards to how understanding people can be.

I think it's great that you can have a spirited debate with someone so close to you, I certainly know in some relationships any kind of disagreement can lead to tension.  However I can see how frustrating it would be to have your worldview (I almost said beliefs) dismissed so readily. I might have asked her how she would feel if you asked her why Catholics had to be so noisy?  I may have also tried to explain that attitudes like "There's too few of you to make a difference" didn't stop Women and Homosexuals from getting the vote and being regarded as actual people.  You are absolutely correct when you say it's not fair to have to hide who you are.  I also don't think it's fair for her to dismiss the argument about African-American struggles as a comparison as someone's belief (or lack therof) is just as much a trigger for prejudice as the colour of someones skin.  In fact Atheists are regarded with more prejudice than African-Americans, point in fact: you have a black President (I'm assuming you're American btw). Do you think there will be an openly atheist President in our lives?

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Permalink Reply by George Whitney on December 2, 2011 at 5:38pm

Freedom of religion goes both ways.  It also means free not to be religious.  As a citizen of the United States we all have equal rights to express our religious viewpoints without threat of violence or losing a relationship.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Weaver on December 2, 2011 at 5:39pm

Keath, I hate to say it but with everything here you shared and the way you worded/described, and if I were you, I would start considering what exactly you are doing with her. I mean, that probably is a posit out of ignorance of your experience and relationship with her, but I would at least consider the perspective that there are a lot of great women out there that can appreciate you for what you really care about.

The main reason I say that is because if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have time for this crap. Namely, increasing irritation at who you are, increasing concern, and the seemingly extremely ignorant quips. And, really, the fact that it is escalating. I would take that as a clue. It doesn't sound like she respects you at some level. Maybe it's something to sort through with her first, but it sounds like a serious problem either way if, as you word it, your relationship is growing. I've learned this the hard way multiple times. Seriously.

And in the case of fundamental thoughts and concerns with this reality, and the consequences of 'believing' certain things that have had enormous impact on so many people's lives, your thoughts and conclusions aren't 'coming out'. It's rather a statement of fact and presence where you are.

And by the way, why would she be so sensitive to her racial background, but not so much over her gender's background in history, when you changed it up and it sounds like that was ok? They both directly concern her equally.

But aside from the rant... I would have said that atheists are 'noisy' because they care, and they care about what they think. They care about what sorts of impact these fundamental issues of what reality really is, or rather how random religious beliefs about deities have affected people's lives in an arbitrary and extremely damaging way. (For some easy examples, I would read both of Hitchens' books "God Is Not Great"  and "The Portable Atheist" if you haven't already) And by and large, the issues that are the hot topics of the day are important, when you have people combating and affecting others people's lives simply because they think there's an invisible Bronze-Age dude that lives in the sky for example.

Does she not have thoughts of her own that she feels are important? If not, and she can't understand why you would... seriously, I would move on and allow the possibility of being able to spend time with someone who does.

And "that we don't need to come out because we can't change anything, there's too few of us." That's an ignorant statement and an extreme insult to history. And perhaps you can't say this, and it's rhetorical. But if I really spoke my mind in this situation, I would say, "You know, would you like to live in a society where you were someone's property simply because of your skin color? Or live under a tyrannical monarchy dictatorship (insert god or a king here)? Well you could have, but you don't, because others with the very same principles that I accept in my life spoke up about what they cared about." And don't even get me started on Catholics, and Christianity as a whole.

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Permalink Reply by Unclepg on December 2, 2011 at 5:41pm

I would want to ask her:

Why do Catholics have to wear a symbol of torture and murder around their necks?

Why does there have to be a bible in every hotel room drawer?

Why do the words "In God We Trust" have to be on our currency?

Why do the words "under God" have to be in our pledge to our country and flag?

Why is it only acceptable for specific segments of the population in this country to speak out on their beliefs in so many different ways and through so many different mediums, but atheistsmust keep silent?

Then I'd point out that the First Amendment affords us both freedom of and from religion, and the right to speak out about it.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on December 2, 2011 at 5:46pm

"Mene mene tekel upharsen" you have been weighed on the scales of life, and found wanting.  Read the writing on the wall, dude.  Move on!

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Permalink Reply by Dave on December 2, 2011 at 5:49pm

I like that quote, what language is that?

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Weaver on December 2, 2011 at 5:58pm

It's from the bible actually, in Daniel. It can be used against itself so easily. For example, the first phrase in Hosea 4:6 is fitting (and proves they're not even doing it right), and then there is the nonsense problem of the rest of the verse.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+4%3A6&version...

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Permalink Reply by Dave on December 2, 2011 at 6:19pm

That's brilliant! Thanks for sharing.

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