Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Major on June 17, 2012 at 4:15pm

Seems sensible to call it an effect but must that debar it from being a cause once in existence? If so, why?

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 17, 2012 at 9:54pm

You may have to rephrase that question. I'm having a hard time parsing it.

Just let me say that effects become causes. That is how you get causal chains.

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Permalink Reply by John Major on June 18, 2012 at 2:29pm

So consciousness, whatever it is, can be a cause of something? Or are you saying it is incidental or uninvolved in determining actions?

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 18, 2012 at 2:56pm

I'm not sure what difference it would make. Subconscious actions have conscious effects which themselves have effects. Still, consciousness is passive. We are only conscious of what appears to our consciousness, aren't we? The real activity is going on behind the scenes in our brain where we can't see it.

Permalink Reply by John Major on June 18, 2012 at 3:34pm

Until consciousness is better defined I am still open minded to it not being a slave to the subconscious.

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 18, 2012 at 9:48pm

It's an epiphenomenon of the brain. Even what comes through the eyes and ears goes through the brain before you're aware of it.

If it isn't subject to the control of the subconscious, then it must be spirit, right? What else could it be?

If you believe in spirit, then you are religious in some sense of the word. Believing in spirit is probably the only thing common to all religions.

Permalink Reply by onecae on June 17, 2012 at 7:57pm

Are you suggesting that something controls the body?

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 17, 2012 at 9:56pm

Are you suggesting nothing does?

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Permalink Reply by onecae on June 18, 2012 at 10:25am

The operative word is "control."

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 18, 2012 at 12:15pm

So...?

How about coming out with some declarative statements. I don't want to indulge you in a guessing game.

Permalink Reply by onecae on June 18, 2012 at 8:46pm

We've talked about the need to define terms earlier.  Contrast the concept of "influence" with the concept of "control". I accept direct observation as a form of proof.  How about you? Can you get closer to a concept of proof?  There are some basic words that are very difficult to define and agree upon.  These words include the personal pronouns, the word "understand" and the word "know." They are surrounded by controversy, yet we use them as if we understand what the other means.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on June 17, 2012 at 8:15pm

RE: "A rainbow doesn't really exist in space, though it appears to."

The water droplets that refract the light exists in space, as does the refracted light.

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