I read posts here that call different things, "harmful to humanity." Others call something, "good" or "bad" or "evil."
A very simple question, who gets to decide the definition of "harmful to humanity" and what is there critieria? The same for "good," "bad," and "evil?" These are not material terms. If everything is material isn't there just "is" and not these moral declarations if one is being thoroughly atheist?
Help me understand your position so I am fair and honest about the views. Thanks.
Well, in the scenario you mention, it would be the couple that was married 50 years ago forcing their bigotry into the same sex couple who are simply trying to enjoy the same privileged that they did. Who are they to force the concept of "btw the man and woman" on everyone else on the planet? That is a concept born from a delusional superstition and should not be forced on people who do not buy into that particular myopic view of freedom. And you are right, the gays didn't force their opinion on them. It is a sign of bigotry, self indulgence, self-righteousness, unconstitutionalism and in general an anti-American attitude that you should be able to strip away other person's right to pursue their own happiness just because you don't "approve" of a choice, simply because of a person's nature. it is the same attitude that approved of people being lynched because a "nigger" married a white person. it is pathetic and uncivilized.
marriage in not mutually exclusive but same sex is in this case..
I'm afraid that Nature forced the concept of gender on us and from this we saw that the penis fit into the vagina and then they looked at certain animals in Nature that where monogomous and decided we'll do the same and call it "marriage."
Damn all those unconstitutional anti american comments makes me feel like Obama.
Nope the "nigger" was a person (I hope you realize that by now) and the white person was also and both were probably non homosexuals. The lynching was exclusive of the marriage part it was "evilness and ignorance."
You really want to know something. I personally don't believe in marriage, it's a trap for materialism's backers. I been there twice already..However I don't think it necessary for gays to marry because IMO it just done for recognition and really if they were strong, why would they need it? Fight for domestic partner's equal rights with married couples..that makes more sense to me.
@Shabaka - "the "nigger" was a person (I hope you realize that by now)" Yes, just as a recognize gays as people. My point is, how do you tell the difference? One is black by nature, one is gay by nature. How can you tell one to ignore their race and the other to ignore their orientation?
I don't believe in marriage, either. It is an institution that has been so distorted so as to make it comical. I have been with my partner (opposite sex, btw) for 20 years. What do I care if the government or a religion "recognizes" our commitment.
However, what you propose as "domestic partnership" is just marriage by another name. What matters what we call it? The point is, they should be afforded the same set of rights as a married heterosexual couple and with the same ease of attainment. I don't see what the harm is that it is called "marriage" except that the thought of homosexuality "offends" some fundamentalists' sensibilities. But their ignorance and bigotry offenses me, so I guess that makes us all even.
Wait...what Nature..universal or personal?
I never said a gay person shouldn't recognize their orientation. But a Black person shouldn't recognize being a nigger.
Yes marriage by another name...leave those poor deluded Christian and other brainwashed folk to their old fashion ways, why do gay people need to be like them with the same institution as them? What needs do gays have that they want to be "mainstream?" It's like they want special privilege and we already have too much of that with white cultural supremacy.
I don't condon homosexuality and I don't promote it, but I'll defend any ones right to be homosexual as long as they keep it out of the public square..that's like competing with Young and Rubicam..
Just so it's clear, I used the term "nigger" in direct relationship to the same bigotry that most people today point toward gays. It was in no way meant to be directed to black people in general from my perspective. I have several very close friends that happen to be black (from several different ancestral backgrounds).
When I talk about "nature", I am talking about the inherit nature of people (among other animals). It has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that sexual orientation is NOT a "choice", but something that people have no control over. People can choose to try to fight that nature, but it seldom accomplishes anything. Anyone who follows the evidence can only come to that conclusion.
The issue is that homosexuality is only "fringe" because people wish to push it out of "main stream". It is only in the public square because xians and other bigots alike have pushed it there while constantly tried to outlaw it.
I have no problem with changing the legal union of two people to be classified as a "civil union" and redefine "marriage" as a purely religious exercise that has no legal ramifications and letting the religious have their "marriages". However, people should not be *legally prohibited* to enter into a "marriage". And until that redefinition happens, gays should not be prohibited from entering into what we currently call "marriage" from a legal perspective.
From what I've read from you so far, the main objection you have to gay marriage is about how the sex organs don't fit together properly? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.
So if I'm understanding you correctly, I have another question. If a male undergoes a sex change operation and gets the female-like parts, should the male-turned-female now be eligible for marriage to a male?
Pope I'm too old to play with Leggos..with gay marriage it's the social impact on a weakened community.
second part depends on who they are marrying..a woman is as a woman does...is she or it a woman?
Cool, thank you. I'll take that as a "Yes", or at least "it's possible". At least that's a start!
This has nothing whatever to do with this thread or this forum, but I'm throwing it in anyway. I don't believe I have ever used the "N" word in my life, but since everyone is tossing it around, I'm about to make personal history and do it now.
In Northwest Oklahoma, there is an escarpment - not a word you use regularly, but this actually is. It runs as far as the eye can see in both directiions and a couple of thousand yards north of its base runs the Cimmarron River, with a tiny western town on the far side of that, and a bridge crossing the river from the base of the escarpment to the town.
Coming from the south, and about to descend the inclined road down the escarpment to the bridge, if one looks to the right and down, one can see, nestled among a group of hillocks, the ruins of an old, stone cabin.
The site is known locally, as Nigger Hill, and the story behind it, is that a black man and a white woman fell in love, but because the town wouldn't let them live together there, he went up onto the escarpment and built them a house, where, presumably, they lived out their days.
Before everyone who lives in the area, who knows any of the actual facts regarding the cabin and this story dies, I've always wished someone with excellent writing skills and possibly publishing contacts, would go there and interview the old farmers and ranchers and try to put that story into print before it's gone forever.
Ironically, the town to which the couple were denied access, was Freedom, Oklahoma, which is quite likely what attracted the black man to the area in the first place.
Aren't you missing his point, Shabaka? He's giving common examples of personal beliefs that are foisted upon others.
And, if I read you correctly, you seem to be picking a fight by attributing meaning to Keith Pinster's words that he never even implied. You appear to infer he's suggesting that allowing gay marriage would somehow invalidate heterosexual marriage because the law will be expanded to include ALL people regardless of gender. If that's what you meant, then you're reading too much into what he wrote.
Enlighten us Wretch - show us which of these biblical morals we'd be lost without --
(King James Version)
Compiled by Barbara G. Walker, author of Man Made God, et al.
1. KILLING. (As in "Thou shalt not"...???)
The biblical god personally kills a total of 371,186 people, not counting his slaughter of every living thing in Genesis 7. The biblical god also orders the killing of a total of 1,862,265.
Gen 22:2 - God accepts human sacrifices (including that of Jesus, later).
Ex 12:29 - God kills all the firstborn in the land of Egypt.
Ex 15:3 - God is a god of war.
Ex 21:15, 17 - Anyone who strikes or curses a parent must be killed.
Ex 22:18 - Every witch must be killed.
Ex 22:19, 20 - You must kill anyone who "lieth with a beast," or who worships any god other than Yahweh.
Ex 31:15 - Anyone who works on the Sabbath must be killed.
Lev 20:10, 13, 27 - You must kill adulterers, homosexuals, wizards and spirit mediums.
Lev 21:9 - Any priest's daughter who fornicates must be burned alive.
Lev 24:16 - Blasphemers must be killed.
Num 16:27-33 - God caused the whole tribe of Korah -- men, women, and children -- to be buried alive.
Num 21:3 - God caused the destruction of all the Canaanites.
Num 31:7-35 - God orders Moses to kill the Midianites, making sure to slaughter not only the men but also the boys and females, except for the 32,000 virgin girls.
Deut 3:4 - God is pleased that his warriors destroyed 60 cities.
Deut 7:16 - You must kill all the people God delivers into your hands, and "thine eye shall have no pity upon them."
Deut 13:5 - Any prophet or "dreamer of dreams," who serves another god, must be killed.
Deut 13:6-9 - If your brother, son, daughter, wife, or friend tempts you to worship other gods, "thou shalt surely kill him."
Deut 13:13-15 - If the people of any city worship other gods, you must slaughter them all, including their cattle.
Deut 17:5 - Any man or woman who worships other deities of sun, moon or stars must be stoned to death.
Deut 18:20 - False prophets must be killed.
Deut 20:16-17 - God commands complete destruction of all Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, and "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth."
Deut 22:21 - A bride found not to be a virgin must be stoned to death.
Deut 22:22 - Adulterers must be killed.
Deut 22:23-24 - A girl who is raped within city limits, and fails to cry out, must be killed.
Deut 28:22-28 - If you don't obey God's commandments, he will punish you with consumption, fever, extreme burning, blasting, mildew, hemorrhoids, the scab, the itch, the botch of Egypt, etc., as well as "madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart."
Josh 6:21 - God's warriors destroyed Jericho and killed every man, woman, child, and domestic animal.
Josh 8:25 - God's warriors killed 12,000 people in the city of Ai.
Josh 19:47 - The children of Dan wanted more room, so they destroyed the whole population of Leshen and took their territory.
Judges 1:17-18 - Judah and Simeon utterly destroyed the populations of Zephath, Gaza, Askelon and Ekron.
Judges 11:39 - In accord with God's law, Jephthah was forced to burn his virgin daughter to death as a sacrifice.
Judges 15:15 - God enables Samson to kill 1,000 men with the jawbone of an ass.
Judges 20:46 - At Gibeah, Benjamin's men killed 25,000 people and burned every town.
1 Sam 6:19 - God kills 50,070 people for trying to peek into the Ark.
1 Sam 15:3 - God commands the destruction of Amalek: "Slay both men and women, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
2 Sam 6:7 - God kills Uzzah for touching the Ark, even though he was trying to save it from falling off its oxcart.
1 Kings 18:40 - God commands the slaughter of "prophets of Baal".
1 Kings 20:36 - Because a man didn't "obey the voice of the Lord," a lion was sent to kill him.
2 Kings 2:24 - God sent bears to tear apart 42 children for making fun of Elisha's bald head.
2 Kings 10:25 - God commands the killing of a multitude in the temple of Baal.
2 Kings 19:35 - God's angel killed 185,000 Assyrians in a single night.
1 Chron 21:14 - God kills 70,000 Israelites with a pestilence.
2 Chron 15:13 - Any man or woman who refuses to "seek the Lord God of Israel" must be killed.
Job 1:15-19 - God arranges the killing of Job's children, servants and animals.
Isa 13:16 - God promises that all the Babylonians' children will be "dashed to pieces before their eyes;" their wives will be raped.
Isa 45:7 - God says "I create evil."
Jer 48:10 - Killing for God is mandatory; God curses anyone who "keepeth back his sword from blood."
Jer 50:21 - God commands that the people of Merathaim and Pekod be "utterly destroyed."
Ezek 9:5-7 - God calls for purging in Jerusalem: "let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women... fill the courts with the slain."
Ezek 35:8 - God promises to fill the mountains, hills, valleys and rivers with slain men.
Hosea 13:16 - God promises to have Samaritan infants dashed to pieces, and pregnant women will have their bellies slashed open.
Nahum 1:2 - God is jealous, full of vengeance and wrath.
Zeph 1:3 - God threatens to destroy everything, man and beast, birds and fishes.
Zeph 1:18 - "The whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy."
Zeph 3:6 - God brags that he has destroyed many nations.
Zech 13:3 - A false prophet must be killed by his father and mother.
Ex 21:7-8 - A father may sell his daughter to be a "maidservant" (or sex slave) who must "please her master."
Num 31:7, 18 - God orders his warriors to kill every living thing in a captured city, except the virgin girls, who are to be raped and turned into sex slaves.
Deut 21:11-12 - If a warrior likes the look of a female war captive, he can take her to be one of his "wives."
Deut 22:28-29 - A man who rapes a virgin may take her for a wife if he pays her father 50 shekels of silver. (Yet, a bride found not to be a virgin must be stoned to death - Deut 22:20-21).
Judges 5:30 - The spoils of war include "a damsel or two" for every man.
Judges 21:12-23 - God's warriors killed all the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead except for 400 virgin girls, who were taken as slaves. If there are not enough girls to go around, God's warriors may raid neighboring towns for more to rape.
Gen 9:25 - God cursed Ham, son of Noah, with perpetual slavery for the crime of seeing his father naked. (Ham was formerly considered the ancestor of all "blacks.")
Ex 21:4 - A male slave may marry and have children, and may go free after six years; but his family remains the property (or hostages?) of his master.
Ex 21:7 - A man may sell his daughter as a sex slave.
Ex 21:20-21 - A man may be punished for beating a male or female slave to death, but if the victim survives the beating for a few days, then there is no penalty.
Lev 19:20 - When a man has sex with a female slave (or "bondmaid"), SHE must be scourged.
Eph 6:5 - Paul says slaves must obey their masters "with fear and trembling."
Titus 2:9 - Paul says slaves must obey and please their masters.
1 Tim 6:1 - Paul says slaves must "count their masters worthy of all honor."
It's amazing, as I peruse these, how many references to virgins there are. I think virgins were important to these guys because a less experienced girl is far less likely to point, giggle, and say, "That's the tiniest little thing I ever saw!"
Nope - "Command/C" copies and "Command/V" pastes - two keystrokes, beginning to end!