So I wanted to talk about which misconceptions, be it definitions of atheism, scientific ignorance or what have you. Which ones do you hear all the time or rarely that really dig under your skin and tickle your insanity nerves?

For me it would have to be big bang cosmology. Whenever someone says that "they can't believe that the universe came from nothing." makes me want to shout and let it all out, I can really do without that. It would either have to be that or the scientific illiteracy that goes along the lines of "the big bang was an explozionn."

So what is it for you? Thanks!

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Heather, I will try to answer your questions.

1. Scientists are not all atheists, as a few minutes of on-line research will show you. Try searching on the phrase "scientists who are christians".

2. The documentary you saw? What is its producer's reputation for truth-telling? If a man named David Barton produced it, you will find that he has no regard for truth on this matter.

3. If you will search on-line for "Dover" and "evolution" you will find the 2005 case in Dover, PA. Read the judge's ruling (about 25 pages as I recall) and you will see how the creationist evidence against evolution (a few lines from Genesis) became the intelligent designer evidence: someone took a creationist document and, using a word processor, set out to replace mentions of creationism with mentions of intelligent design. He/she missed a mention of creationism. People who take their issues to court have to be real careful; judges tend to dislike being lied to.

4. If you will search on-line for evolution and "SCOTUS" (shorthand for Supreme Court of the United States) and do some reading, you will see that Christian have again  and again presented what they call evidence. If you do that reading, you will find whether or not you want to study law.

Heather, there is a lot of education out here and it's waiting for you to find it.

@Tom Sarbeck

Tom, there is a question at the top of this discussion to which I posted a reply, and it is waiting for you to find it.

Heather, clever. You've already studied law.

I replied to your 5-hour-ago post before I found your other posts and didn't know you were expressing anger.

German folk take stuff seriously. For instance, you've heard Italian jokes, Polish jokes, Jewish jokes, etc. In 1914 someone told a German joke. In  1937 someone told another one.

My mother spoke German and I know what "heim" means. What does "spoon" add to it? My all-time favorite German surname is "Fenstermacher".

I wasn't really expressing anger - I was presenting the sort of thing that I hear from theists in much the way I actually encounter it.

I'm not German and have no German ancestry of which I am aware.  Typically 'hein' is German and 'heim' is Norwegian.  The suffix on my name, having an 'm' rather than an 'n' is, as is typical, of Norwegian descent.

'Spoon' denotes a very small family line that originated with some Sponheims that passed through Ellis Island, encountering a U.S. immigration officer who was rather generous with the 'o's that day.  I believe the name meant 'craft house' and I like to think it was a house that crafted mead, as I am an avid home brewer.

My all time favorite German name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt <- although his name is not my name too.

"Why won't they let Christians present evidence?"

I laughed and laughed. Do the words Christian and evidence belong in the same sentence?

I just heard this one from my dad an hour ago - "how can you get presents [for Christmas] if you don't believe in Christianity?". Problem I have with it is that he's suggesting 1. that gift giving is somehow uniquely tied in to the birth of his savior, 2. a non-Christian can't celebrate family and friends during the winter season, 3. He's ignoring how secularized and commercial the whole Christmas holiday has become.

And living in a conservative family - praising guns and Jesus and demonizing anything even remotely liberal or different - it's best for me to shut up or talk just enough to get by this Christmas... that's the end of my rant. THANK YOU for being here to let me voice my experiences TA community.

"how can you get presents [for Christmas] if you don't believe in Christianity?".

Man it is a dig!

'You can buy presents at Walmart, Daddyo, any day of the week. Getting some at christmas is just a example of good marketing to theist narcasists!'

My fault on the vocabulary, he meant how can you 'receive' gifts for Christmas. But yes, I completely agree! It is a nice time of year to get together with family though - gives everyone something to look forward to instead of the depressingly short days and cold weather.

@Kris K(ringle?) - RE: "how can you get presents [for Christmas] if you don't believe in Christianity?" - tell him you don't expect Christmas presents, but a Winter Solstice gift would be nice --

Wow you know what, that's the most original thing I've ever heard with my last name is actually more epic than Kringle though.

That would be a good thing to say but I went for sarcasm: Santa gives the presents and he's got nothing to do with Jesus. He's a Coca cola product and I believe in Coke. (Not entirely true but it sure as hell drove the point home and ended the conversation pretty definitively)

Oh Coca Cola definitely exists.

Whether you worship it or Pepsi or one of the more minor gods is another question entirely.

All hail his holiness Dr. Pepper.  But only with Skyline.


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