I'm an atheist. I believe in reproductive rights for women. I believe a woman should be able to abort a pregnancy no questions asked. Why should I have to also believe the nonsense that "life begins at birth"? It seems to me that a human being is created as soon as a sperm fertilizes an egg. The DNA of a human being exists from that point onward. Are we so under the thumbs of the religious right that we can't say, "Yeah, life begins at conception. So what? The woman still has control."?

Tags: abortion, conception, feminism

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Thank you Reggie, I was thinking similarly. Your post is where a LIKE button or thumbs up rating would come in handy for future reference.

Thank you, Pope.

Here you go, Pope:)

So this thing with no heart, no brain, no jaw or opposable thumbs, no spine or sentience or nerves, this thing that we have to call an "it" because it doesn't even have a gender, you would call it human? Simply because it has the capacity to become human?  You're one of those people that doesn't kill bugs, aren't you?

Why not? Simply because those things aren't developed yet. A biologist studying it will be studying it as a human embryo, not something unknown.

But they treat it like an embryo, not a human. Because it's not. They wouldn't be like "Oh hello there Mr. embryo, let me just... shake your... your little hand there... and how are you today?" An embryo's a monstrosity. You know it is. If you saw it writhing in a garbage can, you'd put it out of whatever little misery it's barely capable of. Okay that's a little dark. How about this? You wouldn't treat a half-cooked pancake like a pancake right? Because it's not yet. It needs to cook more before you can call it a real pancake and treat it like a pancake.

How are these pancake analogies, they doing anything for ya?

No, actually, my position is that "It's a human embryo, but so what? The mother's control of her own body means that simply because it's in her doesn't give the state the right to control it. I simply ask that we talk about human embryos as unexceptional and that we speak of them consistent with way we would an embryonic squirrel, for example. Nobody is standing on their head to insist that squirrel embryos aren't squirrels or that they aren't really alive.

It's not that simple. Even after an egg is fertilized, it has to implant in the uterus before it ever has a chance to develop. Is it human yet? As many as 50% of all fertile eggs don't make it past this stage. A scrap of my skin has all my DNA, and with a bit of science, could be cloned to make a new me. Is every bit of my skin human with fully independent rights? The religious right's insistence that life begins at conception is bullshit, no more and no less.

If we were talking about an embryonic squirrel, no biologist would say, "I don't know what it is." They'd say "It's a squirrel embryo." In other words, "The embryo is a squirrel." It's just a stage in the life of a squirrel. It's sad to see otherwise intelligent people wanting to treat humans as if we are not part of nature but are special, as if we accept the Christian notion that people are a special case.

Who is against squirrel abortion?  I think it is up to the squirrel.

Certainly foxes aren't against it.

More squirrels for the stew.




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