Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Unseen on November 3, 2011 at 11:15pm

To be "alive" as a severed finger will be for perhaps minutes is different from "life," which implies the ability of something to sustain itself potentially for a full lifetime. DNA determines what it is, but does not give it life.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on November 6, 2011 at 2:36am

Well, an embryo does not have the ability to sustain itself for a lifetime. If it is removed from its life support system (the womb), it will die. Much as we could attach a severed body part to a machine to maintain its blood flow, warmth, nutrients, etc. The finger would continue to 'live', but would not be able to sustain itself without external support.

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on November 6, 2011 at 2:52am

But isn't an embryo a "stage in the life cycle" and is therefor alive? What is the status of an unborn alligator, then, or a tomato sprout which hasn't quite broken through to sunlight yet? Dead?

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on November 7, 2011 at 2:34pm

I think you need to define what you mean by 'alive'. A sperm cell is alive, an egg is alive, they merge to form a new cell which is also alive. Life has been non-stop for billions of years.

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on November 7, 2011 at 3:53pm

You're absolutely right. It's false to claim that even a pre-embryonic sperm and egg aren't "alive." The difference is that once a sperm fertilizes an egg, the life of an individual being begins.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on November 7, 2011 at 6:19pm

And that is the point where the discussion needs to take place. At what point does a group of cells make the shift from something that is alive to a sentient being. If a fertilized egg fails to implant into the womb, we don't consider that to be the death of an individual.

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on November 7, 2011 at 6:31pm

It sure is. It's just a nameless individual we'll never get to know. Genetically, it's an individual. The sentience discussion may have bearing on personhood, but not on whether the embryo is alive.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on November 7, 2011 at 7:27pm

You have a strange definition of individual, if you are only considering genetic data. Identical twins are genetically identical, yet I doubt you would claim that they are not two seperate individuals.

Permalink Reply by Charlene Osland on November 3, 2011 at 9:44pm

Reproductive freedom is being made to sound like some sort of demonic rite.  There is big trouble brewing in the US.  These Republican Teabaggers could demolish all the years of struggle and pain that women have invested in the right to their own bodies.  If there is any rational thought in these politics it is not to protect life it is to justify their own immorality by blaming it on God.  This does not make them righteous it makes them evil.  Voters of this ilk do not think, they blindly follow.  They are preyed upon by obscenely wealthy Evangilical Fundamentalist and the shield that allows these self-righteous politicos to hide behind.

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Permalink Reply by Grux on November 3, 2011 at 9:51pm

Life is a label we put on consciousness to be able to feel good about ourselves.  In the long run of things, we are mere specks of dust floating in space that had just the right influence on our chemistry to spawn evolution and countless species to thrive on our planet.  Ultimately this is a choice that should be left to the women.  NOBODY should be able to tell people what to do with their bodies, especially the government.

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Permalink Reply by Cristynfaye on November 3, 2011 at 10:59pm

Babies aren't self sustaining any more than an unborn fetus.  In fact, most people aren't self sustaining until they are well into their teens, some earlier, some later.

 

Just thought I'd point that out.  :D

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on November 3, 2011 at 11:47pm

Maybe life begins when one gets one's first job. :)

People of all ages are dependent. Independence can't be an essential ingredient of life. Parasites are dependent but alive, after all.

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