I am a Christian theist, and I am inviting atheists to talk with me about the nose in our face.

I read this text in your website:

[quote] Think Atheist is your safe place to come out and learn how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers about your belief that the world was not created but is in its current state because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes. [/quote]

You are saying that the nose came about by unguided processes?


Pachomius

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"If the world came about to be an assemblage of guided processes from unguided processes, by way of random mutation and natural selection, isn't that double-talk saying that things are random and then saying
that they are selected, how can you have selection unless you there is
guidance to the selection."

 

I think that part of the problem here is that you don't understand (or refuse to try and understand) natural selection. It is not RANDOM in the way you seem to think it is. I.e. one day you wake up and you have grown a nose out of nowhere. Instead it is the ACCUMULATION of random genetic events. So you have somewhere between 3 and 4 genetic mutations which do not exist in either of your parents, this happens because the processes of genetic combination and replication are imperfect. If one of these mutations were beneficial to your survivial and ability to reproduce they would be passed on to your children conveying the same advantage and so on and so on through the generations. So yes mutation is random but selection is not. We may not always be able to predict on the basis of what environmental pressures a trait will be beneficial (although we have a pretty good idea) but we know that they do and there is evidence for such. Antibiotic resistant bacterial strains come to mind. On the subject of computer simulation, a paper published in nature a few years ago showed that by programming for adapt or die and letting the program run that complex biological strcutures (such as bacterial flagella, a classic intelligent design refuge) will eventually come about. I will try to find this paper since for the life of me i cant remember the title.

Just stick to the nose in our face, is that the result of unguided processes?

 

No need to use so many concepts and words, just answer yes or no.

 

 

You bring in evolution of the atheist brand which is unguided.

 

And you define it as random mutation and natural selection.

 

If the nose is the result of unguided processes, tell me why it is still in our nose?

 

Now, think about your definition of evolution of the atheist brand, unguided processes which consist in random mutation and natural selection.

 

The point is that when you describe a process as consisting of randomness and then of selection (by nature hahaha), you are slipping in by the back door what you keep out at the front door.

 

So don't describe the whole business as unguided processes, it is all guided because the guided part and phase is the one that stays stable, and the random mutation part is just without any meaning, except to fill up your credulous mind with the assurance that there is randomness that is the beginning of selection.

 

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If you want me to answer to your post here, please reproduce it in your edit box and in a few words, and I will reply to you.

 


I can't see you because I always go to the last page of the thread.

 

The system here is just the way the authors of the forum software have guided it to operate the way it does operate.

 

I am more used to softwares that give posters the option to have all messages arranged according to time succession with the latest at the top or the latest at the bottom.

 

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You see, I bring up the nose because that is the thing that is so close to all of us, and we cannot otherwise than see it to be a guided product of guided process(es).

 

You can of course bring in concepts and words and go high up to far far in outer space or inside the more profound of inner and deeper space of the atom whatever, to come to the specious conclusion that everything is due to unguided processes; or some people are so smart they say that it is all illusions of guided processes.

 

In which case, I challenge them to smash their nose with a quick hard blow on their nose using a sledge hammer, no worry and hesitation, to prove that their nose is all illusion of guided processes.

 

Will they dare accept my challenge?

 

Of course if they will, I have to put forth a disclaimer that any injury suffered by the self-illusionist is totally owing to his own conviction, that his nose is all an illusion and he wanted to prove 'scientifically' to himself  that it is so, namely, it is all illusion -- I will not be answerable whatever for his smashed up nose.

 

-----------------

 

If you care to know the virtue of few words, here is why:

 

When you are holding to the string of few words all the time to keep to the sharpest focus of the issue, like the nose in our face whether it is the result of guided processes or of unguided processes, you will never get lost; unlike when you want to go into extravagant complications to project your labyrinthine gimmick of an unthinking non-system (and congratulate yourself as being oh so smart), you get more and more entangled and baffled in all kinds and manners of nitpicks that you cannot anymore be mindful of the string of few words, by which you must always keep in touch and on hold with to get back to sanity; otherwise in such a kind of a dire situation you cannot but feel so lost as to conclude in surrender that everything is all unguided processes.

 

 

Pancake Croissant

No need to use so many concepts and words, just answer yes or no.

 

Are you a joke?  You must be.  I've been following this from a distance and I get the biggest kick out your labeling of posts as "frivolous" because it either A) didn't begin with a certain phrase that you like which frames the question in a manner favorable to some asinine point you are trying to make...or B) uses WAY too many words and concepts for your admirably "focused" mind to grasp...or C) the fact that your questions and arguments have been addressed and dismantled already, yet you seem oblivious to it because of your rules about word counts and embedded videos.

 

This is why it is better to drown pancakes in syrup and eat them rather than debate them.  Damn, I'm ready for a late night breakfast!

Doone is the next J. K. Rowling!

Tampons?  Will this become your calling card?

 

Literally LOL'ed.

HOPEFULLY NOT!!! HA HA!!

 

i am trying, very sincerely, to get one reply/remark/thought from Pancakes onto my post to him, on recent human evolution.

Is reeeeeeeeally easy question. 

 I've posted it 3 times, maybe 2, but i am hoping he will find it and reply.  apparently Pancakes only looks on final page of thread, not at new replies in middle.

  I haven't looked tonight, to see if there might be a reply...it is on page 17, or WAS on page 17!!

 

but no, hopefully that will NOT be my calling card!! lol!

 

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I am really lost in this forum owing to its software.

 

Do you everyone notice in my last previous post here some words are high-lighted in green, that is due to spellcheck, and the green high-light came out also.

 

Anyway, no trouble, at least I can write in Ascii and just do the best to manage to communicate effectively with readers and posters here.

 

If you want me to reply to a post of yours, please give me the link.

 

Okay, I will look up your post, Jean Marie; you say it is in page 17?

 

[ Please, will you atheist guys here just keep to ideas in written words, write in Ascii, skip the videos, graphics, audios, whatever else, because you are making the downloading of this forum and my movement very difficult -- at least for the sake of showing to the whole world that atheists can be serious and can write their thoughts serious ones of course in Ascii. Otherwise, in addition to taking you guys as the most distrusted minority -- for Americans generally -- in the US, they Americans generally have also to keep in mind and as well as in their heart that you guys are just a bunch of frivolous talkers, and wasting people's time.]

 

Okay, I found your post in page 17 and it is a frivolous post from the first light I saw in it, so I skipped it and also again skipped it this time.

 

If you have something serious to tell me, say it now in reply to this now post from me, and say it in Ascii all, no videos, no graphics, no audios, and no frivolities.

 

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Let us again read this text in your homepage, homepage of Think Atheist:

[quote] Think Atheist is your safe place to come out and learn how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers about your belief that the world was not created but is in its current state because of
complicated and beautifully unguided processes. [/quote]

 

Now, let me break up that text into several separate lines:

 

1. Think Atheist is your safe place

2. to come out and learn

3. how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers

4. about your belief

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

 

Tell you what, guys, atheists here, I will place that enumeration above at the top of every message I write in this forum, so that you guys will be guided accordingly to observe them; again, let me reproduce them so that they will get into your memory cells and stay there but in an active mode:
--------------------

1. Think Atheist is your safe place

2. to come out and learn

3. how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers

4. about your belief

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

 

---------------------

 

Let everyone, atheists and theists and whatever else reading here, touch your nose.

 

Next, look at your nose in the mirror, or look down at your nose with one eye (closing first the other eye), then with the other eye.

 

See your nose, first its profile on one and then on the other side?

 

Now tell me accordiing to the intelligence in your normally frivolous brain the score of which is tested and calculated by IQ tests, in answers to the following questions:

 

A. Is it truly and honestly and with absolute certainty that you know to be the case that:

 

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

 

B. If that be the truth for you, those preceding statements from your atheist Think Atheist website homepage (yes, Think), how and why should your nose remain stable in its presence and in its configuration at this very moment to date; for if it is the product of unguided processes, it should not be anymore present at all, or if still present it should not be anymore in its present configuration?

 

C. What then is the reason why it is still present and in its present configuration? Think.

 

You can answer right away with a little bit of work from your brain cells, okay?

 

 

 

Pancake Croissant

 

Just answer my questions and they are relevant to the topic of the thread.

 

By the way I said that I will place the enumeration of the statement of purpose of the Think Atheist website in every message now I write here, I almost forgot, here it is:

 

----------------

Think Atheist Website Statement of Purpose

 

 

1. Think Atheist is your safe place

2. to come out and learn

3. how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers

4. about your belief

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

 

----------------

 

Have readers here noticed that the traffic here has filtered out down to perhaps at most 3 or 4 posts from atheists here, per day?

 

What gives?

 

I will have to leave this thread soon if traffic does not build up but please with serious messages.

 

Pancake Croissant

So, is it me, or does this guy have absolutely no understanding of biology?
Don't trolls eat stones? He probably understands geology better than you do.
----------------
Think Atheist Website Statement of Purpose
1. Think Atheist is your safe place
2. to come out and learn
3. how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers
4. about your belief
5. that the world was not created
6. but is in its current state
7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.
----------------

Please keep to the topic, no frivolities now.

 

And answer these questions I have already addressed to you yesterday:

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Let everyone, atheists and theists and whatever else reading here, touch your nose.

 

Next, look at your nose in the mirror, or look down at your nose with one eye (closing first the other eye), then with the other eye.

 

See your nose, first its profile on one and then on the other side?

 

Now tell me according to the intelligence in your normally frivolous brain the score of which is tested and calculated by IQ tests, in answers to the following questions:


 

A.

 

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.


 

B.


 

C.

What then is the reason why it is still present and in its present configuration? Think.

 

You can answer right away with a little bit of work from your brain cells, okay?

If that be the truth for you, those preceding statements from your atheist Think Atheist website homepage (yes, Think), how and why should your nose remain stable in its presence and in its configuration at this very moment to date; for if it is the product of unguided processes, it should not be anymore present at all, or if still present it should not be anymore in its present configuration? Is it truly and honestly and with absolute certainty that you know to be the case that:

------------------

 

And don't stray away from the everyday life and vicissitudes, this is the world you are living in and operating.

 

And that is where your nose and my nose are situated.

 

 

Now, just a reminder, the topic of this thread is:

 

"Let's talk about the nose in our face."

 

So, keep to it, unless you guys are incapable of any discipline of the mind in regard to attention and focus.

 

 

Pancake Croissant

 What exactly do you want to hear? The nose is where it is because of the slow, gradual change of the shape of the human skull. What do you mean by "remain stable in its presence and in its configuration"? Do you wan't to know why our nose's don't look different every day? Because they are made of cartilage and tissue made of cells that aren't replaced very quickly. Or do you wan't to know why our noses aren't showing much change since the Egyptians or earlier people? Because there is no single gene that determines that shape of the nose, so any changes in the genome wast enough to significantly change the shape of the nose are likely to alter other organs to the point where survival until mating is possible is unlikely. Also, a wildly different shape of the nose, even if it had no detrimental effect on survival, would probably have very detrimental effects on the chances of getting laid. And survival is evolutionary pointless if you don't have kids.

 

If this is not what you wanted to know, please elaborate on your question.

 You coming in here trying to preach is not swaying anyone. Your circular reasoning is not winning anyone over. You ignoring the FACTS Doone has presented you is making you look even more foolish.

 

Go find a street corner in the ghetto to preach on , you might have better luck winning souls.

 

 

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