I am a Christian theist, and I am inviting atheists to talk with me about the nose in our face.

I read this text in your website:

[quote] Think Atheist is your safe place to come out and learn how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers about your belief that the world was not created but is in its current state because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes. [/quote]

You are saying that the nose came about by unguided processes?


Pachomius

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Hahahah at that picture!  If anyone has omnipotent boogers, it's totally that guy.,

 

I realized after I posted that I probably wasn't helping the case of accused frivolity by discussing boogers but I just couldn't resist.  But hey, it's finals and I've been writing serious scholarly junk all week...it was high time for something juvenile. ;)

Divine boogers!  Hahaha!

Man.. is it just me or all the best discussions started by theists lately?

Probably not their intent, but it is ours. TA exists to get and keep people thinking. Every time one of these people saunter in, we just become even more knowledgeable and educated. 

Keep it up guys. Great work! 

I sincerely wish that I could follow this conversation but I can't take the onslaught of irrelevant responses.

Ah creationists, gotta luv 'em.  like playing chess with a pigeon.  "but what about the second law of thermodynamics, and the overwhelming evidence for a global flood, and morality, and bananas, ...and...and..."

I read this text in your website:

[quote] Think Atheist is your safe place to come out and learn how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers about your belief that the world was not created but is in its current state because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes. [/quote]

You are saying that the nose came about by unguided processes?

 

---------------------

 

Okay, everyone, don't stray away from our nose in our face.

 

You say the nose is the result of unguided processes.

 

And you bring in evolution as the foundation of the unguided processes that results in the nose in our face.

 

Now suppose you give all the writings of all the scientists on evolution to engineers and technicians and builders of all kinds, and tell them to read all that literature, then proceed to follow what they learn from all that literature on evolution in order to bring about a nose among living things without any nose.

 

Will they succeed?

 

You can assure them that it all takes millions of years.

 

What will they think of you?

 

 

Pancake Croissant

That's kind of the point of it being evolution by natural selection - outside interference isn't what creates, causes or drives it. That's why your argument is wrong: guided evolution, in the way you use the term guidance, makes no sense.

You are saying that the nose came about by unguided processes?

 

Nope. Other way around. Nose go first, me always follow nose. Nose is guide. Nosito, ergo sum.

Please don't waste bandwidth with so much materials which are not relevant to the topic; it also slows down the downloading of your messages, over taxing the computer's resources.

 

I will always now write after the last post in this thread, even though it does not in fact address the concern of the author there; just that my post will be the last one of the thread after I posted it.

 

 

Now, forgive me for reproducing my immediately previous post, so that your attention should be to go to the message there.

Reply by Pancake Croissant 1 hour ago

[quote] Think Atheist is your safe place to come out and learn how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers about your belief that the world was not created but is in its current state because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes. [/quote]

You are saying that the nose came about by unguided processes?



---------------------


Okay, everyone, don't stray away from our nose in our face.



You say the nose is the result of unguided processes.



And you bring in evolution as the foundation of the unguided processes that results in the nose in our face.



Now suppose you give all the writings of all the scientists on evolution to engineers and technicians and builders of all kinds, and tell them to read all that literature, then proceed to follow what they learn from all that literature on evolution in order to bring about a nose among living things without any nose.



Will they succeed?



You can assure them that it all takes millions of years.



What will they think of you?



Pancake Croissant 



 

Please pay attention to the text above in bold. 


Now, add mathematicians to help the engineers and technicians and builders of all kinds to use all the ideas of evolution and bring about among organisms without a nose a number with a nose.

Because if the appearance of the nose in our face is due to evolution and evolution is a scientific explanation for the rise of new species of life from old species, then the engineers, technicians, builders, and now assisted by mathematicians, should be able to effect the rise of organisms with nose in their face from among organisms without.


All it takes is just random mutation and natural selection and millions of years.

No need for any guided processes.

So the engineers and technicians and builders and mathematicians just have to rig up an environmet of random mutation and natural selection and calculate how many millions of years for the organisms with a nose in their face to appear.

If in fact it will take millions of years for them to wait as for you, then if I am not mistaken they can resort to computer simulation.


[ I don't know how this message will come out, but I hope it will be readable nonetheless, because I am still trying to experiment with the formatting codes of the forum software here.]



Pancake Croissant

Earlier, Adrianna posted this:

 

"OK, OK I'll be serious now:

Vertebrate evolution: the nose


Vertebrate evolution: In the nose

The origin of the internal nostril or 'choana' of land vertebrates, the opening from the nasal sac to the roof of the mouth, is the subject of heated debate. Some claim that it represents a displaced external nostril, others that this is implausible as it would imply a breaking and rejoining of the maxillary–premaxillary dental arcade. New fossil material of Kenichthys, a 395-million-year-old fish from China, finally resolves this dispute. Kenichthys has a unique nasal region intermediate between the choanate and non-choanate conditions, providing direct evidence that the choana is indeed a displaced external nostril. During a brief transitional stage illustrated by Kenichthys, the choana was in the tooth row, between maxilla and premaxilla. On a more speculative note, it's possible that a 'fossil' of this evolutionary event can be seen in tetrapod development to this day in the form of the common birth defect known as cleft lip and palate.

letters to nature
The origin of the internal nostril of tetrapods
MIN ZHU & PER E. AHLBERG
Nature 432, 94–97 (2004); doi:10.1038/nature02843
| First Paragraph | Full Text (HTML / PDF) |


The choana is the posterior nasal opening.

So the answer is: fish!"

I'm sorry - the point of this post was what? Did you have a question or are you recapping what you think people have said?

I think there is a significant element of time wasting here. The poster is not listening nor will he because he does not want an answer he wants to leave thinking he is right. I will answer anyway though.

 

As numerous others have said the nose evolved in small increments over time, each generation being acted upon by the environmental pressures of their time. Fast forward to now and we have noses. They are not more amazing than eyes or brains or feet or even athletes foot fungus. Surely the poster can see that small incremental change is more logical than a bearded dude building something out of magic? There is no evidence of creator nor is their a need for a creator.

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