Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Arcus on November 20, 2012 at 4:42pm

1. Quacks. 

2. Hell the fuck no.

3. No, but then again, I would never see one. 

4. Quite right. A white lab coat or pretty much any uniform of authority can make you kill people (Milgram experiments).

5. There's no deceit like self deceit. Especially if you get a receipt. 

On one hand, I would really like if quack medicine was banned, but on the other hand it does actually help a lot of idiots people. Not because they are cured or anything like it, but through the strength of triggering the placebo effect. 

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Permalink Reply by SteveInCO on November 20, 2012 at 7:43pm

It can be of some use in some circumstances.  Obviously not in your friend's case.  But I've had chiropractors successfully get rid of chronic problems with my sacrum and also with my neck.

There are far too many chiropractors who oversell what it can do but in some cases you really do have a musculoskeletal issue and that's what they can do assuming they are competent.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Jansen on November 20, 2012 at 8:32pm

Now let's not be biased here since we are supposed to be thinkers. Chiropractic is an alternative medicine that has been being practiced for thousands of years. It along with many other types of alternative medicine and regular have all had nutjubs preaching they have a cure for everything. There are chiropractors who say they can cure everything and they are full of bullshit just like there are people who swear coffee enemas can cure cancer which they cannot just like the numerous amount of drugs that don't cure anything they just suppress it and cause other issues. Medicine is constantly changing as our understanding of the human body advances. Normal chiropractors know what they can and can't do just like the vast majority of other alternative medicines they don't preach to cure cancer with a single adjustment they tell you what they can do. Now seeing as you never listed what your friend has wrong nor if she has gone to her appointments that are scheduled no one here can make a judgment on its effectiveness. She may have a terribly mangled spine or she may just not be listening to doctors orders which can lengthen the time of treatment just as if you don't take your antibiotics on time it can screw up the treat.
1. Good Chiropractors know their limits and will suggest that seeing a different doctor if it's warranted such and needing a disk to be fused etc
2. I don't see one regularly but I have been around them all my life considering my dad is one and I've also had multiple trainers who have been chiropractors during football season. I get adjustments as I see fit. The reason I don't see them regularly is because i only need to get an adjustment once a month out of season and personally for me that prevents me from getting head aches near the end of the month before I get another adjustment I start to get head aches more and before you try and say it's a placebo effect well first off I don't believe shit considering I've been a skeptic I didn't expect it to work but it did. And as to the benefit of having chiropractors volunteering as athletic trainers its immediate. We have 2 MDs who volunteer but only at the games and then we had another who was the actual trainer at the school. I don't know if it's luck of the draw but he was terrible misdiagnosed pretty much everything from thinking a finger is jammed when in reality it was so broen it required surgery, same think with a broken foot. On top of misdiagnosis all he could do was wrap limbs and get bags of ice. Then he got fired due to his multiple fuck ups. We then had a chiropractor volunteer a different one each year and guess what number of injuries went down and length too. They actually were well informed on the musculoskeletal system considering their whole job is about that so they properly diagnosed injuries and also clashed with the coaches to implement a different routine for stretching, lifting, and not giving us gatorade and other drinks before the second half to prevent cramps. Well it all worked muscles e pulls and strains went down, very few people were gettinghurt due to the increased focus on flexibility and a different lifting routine which focused on muscles we needed to use. Then there is the whole fact that every player on the team got free adjustments at their offices you can claim all the bullshit you want but you get numerous testimonies about the effectiveness of a hip adjustment that makes your legs an equal length that helps lessens the strain on you longer leg. Every one who actually took advantage of the adjustments and muscle therapy you could see the difference and hear them in the locker room after. No complaints about one leg killing them or back pain or tweaked muscles. And this was with 3 different chiropractors they don't cure diseases buy they are Damn good at pain alleviation and prevention.

3. Never been hurt once nor have any of my dad's patients hence the fact he has had 0 malpractice lawsuits.

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Permalink Reply by Ed on November 21, 2012 at 9:35pm

The mandatory 4200 hours of of combined classroom, laboratory, and clinical experience before receiving a DC seems to lend some legitimacy to the profession. 

If a client receives real or perceived relief from their discomfort/pain is of little concern if only when they lay their head on that pillow at night they are actually able to sleep.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Jansen on November 20, 2012 at 8:40pm

4. How can so many people be duped? Oh you mean like the multiple drugs that do nothing at all aka placebo pills as well as ones that aren't placebos yet still don't work such as the most widely prescribed multiple sclerosis drug have little to no effect at all. As well as the numerous amount of drugs that have been recalled due to severe side effects etc etc I'd rather die from something other than liver failure or from complications caused by a pill that was supposed to fix something else.

5. This "quackery" There have been things to stop it unfortunately for you they all failed since there are proven medical benefits from visiting a chiropractor.

6. Why do idiots think chiropractors are magical cure alls when they are just a way to actually treat aches and pains and stop them actually and not just cover them up with drugs?

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on November 21, 2012 at 12:27pm

They may be good for a massage as temporary relief from aches and minor pain. However if you have a medical problem then seek medical advice from a proper medical expert.  A friend of mine recently brought her MRI spinal scan to one that was “highly recommended”. He admitted than he had no facility read it. He did hold it up to the light and give his  opinion that “nothing was out of place”. When I asked what qualifications he had I was told something like how “a little bit of paper with his name on it would not make up for years of experience”. So we left immediately. When the official appointment with the “real” specialist happens she was told exactly was wrong with her back from reading the MRI within 5 minutes. The recommend treatment is working. Is it possible in the US to call oneself a Chiropractor and open an office without formal qualifications? I would not be bending over backwards to see one if it was me in pain.

However I do not wish to paint everyone with the same brush. I am sure that there are plenty of “good” ones out there. It is important to check out all their qualifications and maybe even talk to others that used the service for their opinion. Ask first if it if ok to exercise. Yoga and swimming are the best. I agree with Sarah’s points above and would also like to suggest that improper footwear, especially when exercising is only going to make things worse. Get your shoe size properly assessed and get insoles if necessary. Bad posture can cause a lot of the damage but remember bad medical advice will make it worse.

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Permalink Reply by Charles Hodges on November 21, 2012 at 1:19pm

It's been many years since I went to a chiropractor, but at the time, I felt it helped to temporarily relieve my back/leg/nerve pain. I never looked at it as a cure for anything and saw medical doctors for the same problem, with more long term & better results (but no "cure" from either). I looked at chiropractic like a very brief, intense physical therapy session. I don't agree with the tendency of many of the DC's to expand into homeopathy and other quackery, like their claims of curing diseases through spinal manipulation.  I also wouldn't let one touch my neck after having had the experience of a neck adjustment causing considerable pain with no "gain". It seems that the MD community is less opposed to the practice than in years past.  My current pain management MD has no problems with chiropractic as long as it's part of an overall plan of medical treatment. I see your point with your friend's long term reliance on DC; maybe she's afraid of her condition getting worse if she quits the treatments. It's her choice, either way.  I would never consider a DC or a DO as my "primary care" physician. I don't follow your "irreparable harm" comment; certainly a chiropractor could break bones or pinch nerves, but I don't see where a typical session, even over years, necessarily would lead to permanent damage. I would think the long term problems would result from failure to get timely treatment from MDs because of reliance on the DCs.

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Permalink Reply by Strega on November 21, 2012 at 1:49pm

Hi Sophie

We are all I think, in agreement that certain muscle and bone manipulation can have a beneficial effect, if it addresses the right areas.  I think the issue for your friend is that she has accepted the Chiro-practitioner of her choice as being the one who can heal her.  You're trying to show her that it isn't working.  I think sometimes when someone defends their viewpoint with anger, its because they are quashing their own doubts by trying to quash yours.  Your technique doesn't seem to work, so it's probably time to re-think your strategy.

I'm sure you are aware that certain pains delivered in certain ways can release endorphins and make someone feel happy and in a good place.  This might be what the person she is visiting is doing.  So when your friend comes away from a visit, she feels good.  Because the actual problem isn't going away, you feel that she is being duped, but she still feels the endorphin high.

Telling her that she is wrong clearly isn't doing the trick.  So rather than pressing that point, you need to produce an alternative, even better solution.  Have you considered acupuncture?  It may help, but I think it will certainly replicate the endorphin expectation, and that may convince her that it is even better.

I have personal experience of effective acupuncture, but I am not saying it works every time, or indeed that every practitioner is good.  But I do think there is far less room for damage to be done, whereas wrongful cracks and stretches do carry a risk of harm.

So maybe if you came up with that as an alternate solution, and persuade her at least to give it a try with an open mind, you might move her from the defensive position to a more open-minded ability to consider alternatives.  If she is lucky, it might even work.

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Permalink Reply by Jeremy on November 21, 2012 at 1:59pm

Ok I have gone to various chiropractors for years and I agree some like to over sell what they do. If you are out of shape, over weight and don't maintain muscle tone the chiropractor will continue to have to re-align you if you have poor posture, slouch, lift improperly. If you have a good honest chiropractor that allows you to determine when you need to come in based on how you are feeling then it can help. Medical doctors solution for most things is to push the latest drug or cut you open. Chiropractors see muscle and joint pain differently and may be able to make adjustments to muscle skeletal positions to un-pinch nerves and balance your body.
I do not go very often anymore but every now and then I will lift wrong at work or home and feel my middle back start to hurt. I will go in and get adjusted feeling immediately better with some minor soreness that goes away quickly.

SO my questions to you is have you ever talked to one? Have you gone with your friend to an appointment?

You seemed extremely closed minded about this. a little fact about chiropractors. Since they have been in practice they have never killed anyone or seriously maimed anyone. Can you say the same about doctors or surgeons?

I do not depend on chiropractors and I go to an orthopedic doctor or a lower leg issue but for the back and neck I will go to a chiropractor before a MD every time. Try the non evasive before you go to the pill pushing butchers.

I hope you can look at this in a calmer mood and maybe do some research of your own before you make judgments based on opinion even mine.

Good luck and good health.

Jeremy

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Permalink Reply by Simon Heffer on November 22, 2012 at 7:35am

According to this website you're 368,379  out in your estimate of 'never killed anyone'.  http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html

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Permalink Reply by erc on November 21, 2012 at 2:05pm

1. not a fan

2.  nope.....see 1 above

3. no, but I did try it once.  it was an incredibly creepy experience that I hope to never repeat.

4. most people are just not that smart.  it's sad but true. 

5. im guessing it's because they don't actually kill people

6. does'nt it bug the shit out of you when a chiropractor tries to have people address them as "Dr. -"??  it's insulting to actual doctors!

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Permalink Reply by Dale Headley on November 21, 2012 at 3:11pm

1) Most chiropractors (subluxationists) are despicable charalatans pretending to have some knowledge of medicine. The few good ones (non-subluxationists) are no more effective than  massage therapists.

2) I would NEVER go to a chiropractor.

3)  Not I; but my father did.  He went to one for a couple of years before discovering, too late, what his REAL ailment was.  As a consequence, he died at age 52.  As far as I’m concerned, his chiropractor should be in prison.

4) People - Americans particularly - will believe ANYTHING, especially if it’s advertised on TV.

5. Quackery is WAY too pofitable, and Americans WAY too gullible for it to ever be stopped.

6.  What is your opinion of homeopathy?

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