This is the background of the present thread.

--------------------

Reply by

doone 1 day ago
This discussion is temporarily closed so Pancake can go read a book on Evolution. Just a friendly suggestion, Pancake.
EDIT:

For members who'd like (or need) to learn and discuss the many answers provided to the original question of this thread, I suggest visiting the

Science forum and the group Atheists who love science.
Note that theists are welcome.

 



 



 ------------------------

 

Thanks a lot for not banning me, owners and operators of this website and forum.

 

That is very nice of you.

 

 

----------------

Think Atheist Website Statement of Purpose

1. Think Atheist is your safe place

2. to come out and learn

3. how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers

4. about your belief

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

-----------------

 

I was talking in the previous thread from myself also, about the nose as a point of discussion for the concept of unguided processes which are the ultimate and effectively the absolute explanation for the complicated but beautifully existing world in which mankind finds itself to have existence and operation.

 

This present thread is not about the nose for the present, but about the concept itself of unguided processes.

 

The group here is made up of atheists who love science, very good.

 

Now we can all humans who think, examine scientifically the concept of unguided processes.

 

Here goes my first initiating post in this thread and I expect that atheists abstain from putting in videos, graphics, audios, etc., and specially no frivolities.

 

Otherwise you will give the impression to non-partisan readers that you are in effect muddling up the issue, instead of thinking scientifically and writing with concise, precise, and clear words.

---------------------

 

Addressing atheist evolutionists:



 

That is the difference between you and me, you insist that evolution is exempted from guided processes, but I insist that even evolution and specially evolution is an event that is founded on guided processes.

 

That is why I want us to discuss in the previous thread the nose in our face, because it is from our intelligent consideration on empirical criteria definitely the result of guided processes.

 

Don't go far far away or deep deep in the abyss whatever, when you can examine guided processes, and see there are no unguided processes not today and not ever in the past, by just examining your nose, and as you work in the kitchen or anywhere you be, and you be dealing with things and events and your own undertakings to be doing a life.

 

So, you still insist that evolution is exempted from guided processes altogether, in which case it is a very unscientific explanation for anything at all, because unguided processes cannot be falsified.

 

Read again what this atheist website says about the whole world:

 

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.



 

Just how can you ever falsify unguided processes as the causality of the whole complicated beautiful world?

 

What is that you say?

 

That evolution is not absolutely founded on unguided processes but only

not guided by God, for still it is founded upon guided processes which guides are the rules of God (if you accept God, because you are theist evolutionists), but in particular for atheist evolutionists, by the laws of nature.

 

Well, so you atheist evolutionists cannot really say that evolution is the product or the event or the occurrence whatever that is founded upon unguided processes absolutely, but relatively only, meaning in relation to God: no God's guidance.

 

But it is founded on the laws of nature, and wherefore evolution is founded on guided processes, but with the caveat of course, namely, but not from God’s guidance.

  

What do I say about that?

 

I will say from all honesty and also spontaneity:

 

That you are being or more correctly thinking or correction again, in fact engaged in non-thinking and talking, and the adjectives to describe your behavior are:

 

Disingenuous,

Specious.

  

[ Note to moderators: If a thread is not getting anywhere in your thinking, then you step in to tell whoever is the cause of the stalling that he must accept what is the particular cognitive position that is un-negotiable in your website and forum; otherwise, he should already stop and go away from the thread even though he started it; there is really no need to even just temporally suspend it.]

 

[In this manner posters who cannot accept what in effect are the non-negotiable premises of your website and forum can just leave and not entertain ever any inclination to come back.]

  

Thank you again just the same for not banning me, that is indeed very nice from your part.

   

Pancake Croissant

 

http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/lets-talk-about-the-nose-in?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A470460

Tags: Let, about, processes., talk, unguided, us

Views: 100

Replies to This Discussion

Which is not wholly "unguided."  Natural selection is "selection," no?  It is just guided by survival rather than some sort of supernatural force. 

You realize that acceptance of guidance does nothing to validate the Abrahamic God? Genesis is quite clear. Either you accept the science that plants were created before stars, or the writing isn't accurate. The book is filled with claims that are patently falsifiable such as dragons that fling 1/3rd of the stars out of the sky and to the Earth with its tail.

Certainly you don't believe in Young Earth. If you honestly buy into evolution, but only with guidance, how do you square up the generations in the Bible and an Old Earth? What evidence do you have that leads you to this position? You are enjoying sticking to simply one single concern about how evolution happens while the larger point is staring you in the face. Science as a whole doesn't coincide with your religion, at all. Not the timeline. Not the scientific claims of the Bible that are testable such as distance from Earth and the age of the stars.

Even the Catholic Church admits that the science is crap in the Bible. They accept evolution and Old Earth. But that relegates Genesis to the poetry bin. Do you think that they got miraculous cliff notes or did they simply lose the argument when faced with theologians and scientists being in the same room? It doesn't take a theologian and a scientist to notice that the author of Daniel (4:10-15) didn't understand that the Earth was round when he mentions a tree so big that it could be seen to the "Ends of the Earth" If the ends of the Earth were only ten miles away... Isn't the Bible "God-Breathed?"  

In terms of scientific understanding or testability, you are standing in a manure pond and telling us in the chlorinated pool that it looks like it stinks on our side.   


Hi Pancakes – In order to discuss the processes involved in Evolution we need to get some basic points ironed out first so we can have some common ground established and then move the debate forward to more detailed or esoteric areas.

 

Can we agree on any of the following?  I may be wrong as I am not a scientist.

 

Whatever the “First Cause” of life on this planet was (god, nature, aliens, or random chance) has nothing to do with Evolution. Evolution only deals with what happens after life got started.

 

Evolution – whether the process is guided or unguided - has no long term objective. It only wants its DNA – of whatever life form we want to discuss - to be passed on to the next generation. That is its only aim.

 

With Natural Selection some variations survive while others don’t. Their “fitness” is not about progress but about the environment. Over time the ones best suited (strongest) will survive

 

Being an Atheist has no influence on this process. Believing in God has no influence in this process.

 

Would you agree with any points made? I am finding it a bit difficult to put them in bullet point form but lets run with it and see if we have common ground.

 

----------------

Think Atheist Website Statement of Purpose

1. Think Atheist is your safe place

2. to come out and learn

3. how to have a dialog with friends, family, and strangers

4. about your belief

5. that the world was not created

6. but is in its current state

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

-----------------

 

Doone, are you a she or a he?

Not that it makes any difference in terms of exchange of ideas and views; but I always imagine a she is more soft and rounded than a he, unless the she is a he having 'transgenderized' himself into a she, in which case my limited observation is that such a she tends to be more shrill than necessary for a normal she.

-------------

Just tell me, is that use of the phrase unguided processes in reference to the world complicated and beautiful that it also appears to atheists intended to mean not unguided in regard to laws of nature, but unguided only in regard to God; so that a more concise, precise, and clear term can be just "guided by laws of nature" and period.

So, instead of atheists saying:

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

For the sake of conciseness, and precision, and clarity, and also completeness, just say:

7. because of complicated and beautifully guided processes by laws of nature.

Otherwise I for one will see that you atheist guys are not concerned with the principle that an entirely honest statement must tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth -- as the truth is known in your heart and mind.

Pancake Croissant

I knew it!!!

Just tell me, is that use of the phrase unguided processes in reference to the world complicated and beautiful that it also appears to atheists intended to mean not unguided
in regard to laws of nature, but unguided only in regard to God; so
that a more concise, precise, and clear term can be just "guided by laws
of nature" and period.

So, instead of atheists saying:

7. because of complicated and beautifully unguided processes.

For the sake of conciseness, and precision, and clarity, and also completeness, just say:

7. because of complicated and beautifully guided processes by laws of nature.

Otherwise I for one will see that you atheist guys are not concerned with the principle that an entirely honest statement must tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the
truth -- as the truth is known in your heart and mind.

 


Oops, my bad.  Being an atheist means that I have a limited attention span so it's exceedingly difficult for me to focus on one topic at a time.  Add in the fact that the adjectives which best describe my behavior are "disingenuous, specious" and I find myself in a real bind.

 

Sadly, no, I'm a non-transgenderized he which means I'm hard and flatted, much as the OP probably imagines the earth to be. :)

Well... maybe more like a crisped crepe, really...

 

(Of course, everyone knows that good Christians hate crepes because they're a product of the godless French...)

If I might cease being disingenuous for a moment, I like the new avatar!
I'm just confused as to why this was brought up in conversation at all...?

Would it be fair to say that the droplet is 'guided' by gravity and the path of least resistance? Or does that just muddy the waters?

(that's me :))

That's as obvious as the nose on my face !!

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