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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 16, 2013 at 9:31pm

@Prof. Bob - I mentioned in another post the lessening of the power and influence of catholic church in society - Ireland had one of the highest rates of boys as young as twelve going into seminaries to train as priests - poor country, lots of children, no contraception, lots of mouths to feed, catholic church very strong and influential, kudos to family,a son going into the priesthood,

And, wouldn't you know, Ireland discovered the cover ups of rampant pedophilia, and also their priestly sons getting raped by other priests etc. etc. etc.

Ireland closed its embassy at the vatican.If only more countries had the guts to do this, the world would be a better place, instead of propping up this den of iniquity, power, money and criminality.

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Permalink Reply by Professor Robert on March 16, 2013 at 11:31pm

Yes, Suzanne, the pain caused by the presbyterate and the noxious, arrogant, wicked members of the episcopate in Ireland is very real.  It is hard to look at that and not be caught between a sense of righteous fury at the perpetrators and overwhelming tears for the suffering of the victims.  Those men should be condemned; those victims supported.

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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 16, 2013 at 9:41pm

@Mike - Yep, the top date is day of retrieval, the date of the actual article is 20th November, 2010. The other thing I liked about this article, is they give a name to the little boy suffering aids, instead of an anonymous photo of a kid dying.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/8148944/The-Pope-...

By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent
8:45PM GMT 20 Nov 2010

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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 17, 2013 at 2:10am

If you grew up Catholic, an important part of growing up is to question your faith, and perhaps reject it for a time.  - when I asked a question, like, why did god fill the earth with water, and drown millions of people, men women children. Were there no good people, only the group, including a drunk who committed sin with his daughters, were they the only good ones?

That was just one of the mystery of gods. And I was forbidden from reading the old testament.

That was in extra special catechism classes, the teacher was a nun.

Part of that mature understanding is recognizing the difference between faith and its adherents - that is the problem, how can one have faith in a particular god who was vicious, narcissistic and who taught that women are inferior and are subjugated by their husband. It really made me wonder how many catholics actually read the bible.

I was not being told how to live my life by Feynman, I was instructed how to live my life, according to the scriptures, and it taught with the fear of hell. I was ten years old. It is all the religious zealots and charlatans in the catholic church that are the worry, who have controlled peoples lives. It is shameful.

"Don't touch the stove - ha, ha, you are joking, I had nightmares of what hell was like, my dear and were taken to an art gallery where huge paintings of hell were very proudly shown to us.

How about you speak of all the priests and nuns who have questioned the teachings of , superstitious goat herders, and were excommunicated. Anybody with a modicum of intelligence does question, are met with threats if they don't shut up. Nothing has changed.

Divorce is rampant amongst catholics, Feynman's first wife died, how inconvenient, he married a second time, divorced, third time lucky :) Plus, what Feynnam didn't espouse how to live my life, the catholic church did.

Every adult needs to pull away from that and reject such simplicity on their road to a mature understanding of faith -

Nah, just reject the notion of millions killed by a vengeful, jealous god. Slowly but surely, I could reject Catholicism in my twenties, it took that long. When one is brainwashed, it is very hard to get over, and I felt mysef being unburdened by the hypocrites of the catholic church. It is when catholics come onto this site, it just strengthens my Atheism, it is a reminder how theists twist statement or just ignore them.

Ha, I do hope we are speaking of the same Feynman, whom I have great respect.

Are you speaking of Richard Feynman, who was warded the Nobel Prize in Physics?

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Permalink Reply by Professor Robert on March 18, 2013 at 3:51pm

Yes, Richard Feynman.  If you ever had the pleasure of meeting him, you'd know he really was every bit the character. 

You <I>should</I> reject the notion of millions killed by a vengeful, jealous god.  So would I and the rest of the Catholic Church.  Well done!   You <I>should</I> recognized that the Church is full of humans, and its full complement of hypocrites.  Well done!   You <I>absolutely</I> should reject a god who is "vicious, narcissistic, and who teaches that women are inferior and should be subjugated."  The Catholic Church would join you in rejecting any such god.  Well done!

If that's what you mean by atheism, then I too am an atheist.  Nobody rational would believe in such nonsense.

And yet, here I am a scientist and a Catholic. 

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Permalink Reply by kOrsan on March 18, 2013 at 3:58pm

And here you are denying your own doctrine.

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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 17, 2013 at 2:27am

@Prof Bob - Ireland and the vatican - that was THE problem, the vatican would not only not support Ireland, and it's rampant pedophilia, it actively covered up, and protected catholic pedophiles. Just one of the reasons why Ireland pulled the plug.

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/08/14/vatican-rejects-resignati...

All part of the learning curve.

Do you, Professor Bob, adhere to the teachings of the Vatican?

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Permalink Reply by J Mc on March 17, 2013 at 10:39pm

Dont worry, alot of christians are still trying to understand too. I was brought up in a religious home. I didnt fully understand christianity until I was 17 when I almost died.

I got pulled out by a rip in one of the most dangerous beaches to swim in. No lifeguards just me and cousins waving at me from the beach to stop going out further. By the time they looked like dots on the beach I started giving up. I prayed "Dear god, please save me, I promise to go to church every day for the rest of my life AMEN". As soon as I said that prayer I got dragged out even further. Now Im in deep ocean I can barely make out the beach. I throw my board away, cry and say, ok time to die. Then I saw a fish and it scared the shit out of me so I frantically swam back to my board. My energy was almost all out and thats when I decided, it was time to accept my death. I said, if Im going to die, I should at least say a prayer from my heart and say nothing but what I believe to be true regardless if it sounds bad.

"Hi God, its me again. I know I've been a real cunt, sorry for swearing but Im sorry for all the bad things Ive done to people, Im sorry for being bad to mum when all shes ever done was love me and try teach me the right thing to do. Im sorry for being a dick to my step dad, Im such a loser. Im sorry for praying earlier saying Ill go to church every sunday cause you know and I know that Im sooOoo not going to do that. But god, if you save me, Im going to make sure that I live my life to the fullest and try to be what Jesus was trying to teach us and love everyone. I promise that I will attempt to go to church, but I know I cant go every sunday but I will try I promise. If you cant save me its ok I still love you, just make sure you look after my mum and sisters. I ask all these things in the name of Jesus Christ amen."

As soon as I said amen, a big wave picked me up and took me all the way to shore, thats right One Big Wave. It took like 20-30 seconds to get back to shore on this one wave.

When I got back to the sand I was like I LOVE YOU EARTH, Kissing the sand. I lay on my back on the sand looking up at the sky and realised that it didnt matter if I didnt believe in him, he was always there waiting for me to open up to him. The first steps is truly accepting God and Jesus thats why its not easy to believe because you have to take a big leap in faith. Thats why I dont mind people who dont believe cause I for one was exactly in the same boat. If it happens cool, if it doesnt all good too. In the bible it was never a forced decision, everyone has the freedom of choice.

The reasons why some christians try to ram christianity down your throat is that they actually dont want anything bad to happen to you after you die. Its similar to when you give medicine to a baby, you hate doing it cause you see the pain in your childs face but you want them to heal. 

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Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on March 17, 2013 at 11:01pm

 

What a good story J Mc. I really enjoyed reading that.

It reminds me of Cat Stevens story and how he became Yousef Islam. He had almost exactly the same drowning experience as yours. 

"I was like I LOVE YOU EARTH, Kissing the sand."

Thats beautiful.

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Permalink Reply by Strega on March 17, 2013 at 11:14pm

Cat Stevens converted from Christianity (Greek Orthodox) to becoming a Muslim, ironically.

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Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on March 17, 2013 at 11:30pm

 

I wonder what made him choose Islam this time?

Could we say he,  turned the tide ...

 

*I hope thats not in bad taste*

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on March 17, 2013 at 11:08pm

I think it's cool that you've found meaning in your experience and I have no intention of swaying you from your views on that (nor a delusion that I can or should), but having faced a couple of life or death situations myself, I can pretty much gauge what my response would have been. I likely would have thought to myself, "Waves in the ocean: sometimes they are known to happen."

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