I would like to try this again but first can I just let you know that I am an atheist who is trying to understand the religious point of view. This is not the same thing agreeing with them but I truly am trying to see it from their angle. I want to step into their shoes and I want to feel it the way they feel it and in that way, hopefully try to solve problems with them instead of against them. This is empathy. This is peace.
About the name I use - Evangelia is my Mothers name and the English version of that is Angela. It makes me happy to see my mothers name. David is a biblical name to but that doesnt mean people named David are religious.
When you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME
Oh I wish I hadn't missed the JWs when they came to my house recently. They left a pamphlet about science and the Bible. It must have been the same one. What a fantastic response you had.
One question - who are the others for whom you have nothing but contempt? Are you referring to the Pat Robertsons of the world?
LOL! You go Reg. That's awesome.
That's the thing Angela, everything is changing.
Catholic hierarchy won't change, they can't lose face on the big topics, but people just living their lives are ignoring catholic doctrine.
Both Atheists and Gays are coming out in larger numbers all the time, with so many people in the public eye coming out as both Gay and Atheist.
I think the trick with theists coming to terms with Gays, is to have one or more, as members of family. Our Mardi Gras grows every year, with family members marching beside their gay children, brothers and sisters, One sees it in Australia, which people generally don't know, but Angela would. The leader of the Opposition here, is Tony Abbott, a conservative in politics and catholic. His sister is gay. He is not as vehement and derogatory about Gays as he once was. Another right wing politician Bob Kattter, his step brother is gay. Bob won't change, but his step brother is very vocal about his sexuality. We have gays in Parliament. It is all whittling away theist doctrine, and the sky isn't falling in.
Time moves on, the catholic church is generally being undermined by common sense.
Catholics just let certain things fall by the wayside, Limbo has gone, the stigma of divorce has gone, children out of 'wedlock' gone, the mortal sin of masturbation, ha, good luck with that one, contraceptives albeit with certain twisting of the reasons, are acceptable, both condoms and pills, abortion is legal - sanity is prevailing.
why is it so important for homosexuals to be acknowledged by the church?
I've always wondered that as well. If the Catholic Church won't accept you, go where you'll be accepted.
Because the Church has so much influence in the civil sector. If they did not, people with my sexual orientation would not have to care.
A sin is a transgression against god. So if I don't believe in god, how can I sin? I prefer to think of myself as a misdemeanant or a felon.
It is interesting reading this thread. The topic was more about understanding theists, but the thread moved fairly quickly into the issue of homosexuality. I would think that those topics would be relatively orthogonal. Certainly, from a theist's perspective, we don't spend very much time thinking about or talking about homosexuality at all.
It is interesting reading some of the perspectives. I was entertained by the description of the conversation with the Jehovas, I confess I have had similar conversations with them and with our LDS friends when they come calling. For some of the others when I don't have the time, I usually ask to borrow their Bible and flip to Luke, chapter 12, where Jesus is sending his disciples out preaching and instructs them "do not go door to door."
"Certainly, from a theist's perspective, we don't spend very much time thinking about or talking about homosexuality at all."
Well, I doubt you would. Homosexuals and atheists have in common the fact that we aren't readily accepted in our communities, can sometimes be shunned or otherwise outright rejected, and can face discrimination from others based on religious grounds. It's also for us one more way that religious arguments are imposed into civil law. Our struggle for acceptance in some ways mirrors theirs as we try break cultural stigmas regarding who we are.
Certainly, from a theist's perspective, we don't spend very much time thinking about or talking about homosexuality at all.
Oh? That doesn't explain all the homophobic theists who constantly want to meddle in other people's affairs and tell them how to live their lives and sex lives. To me it seems that they generally think more often about gays and gay sex than even gays themselves.
lol ... that gave me a really good giggle -