Jesus said to hate everyone but him?
I wrote about this today in my blog Attempts at Rational Behavior, here is the post:
Luke 14:25-27
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
This Bible passage impresses me for two reasons. One, the literal translation is pretty solid. Hate everyone you know, including yourself, or else you can't be my friend.
Nice.
So the Christian interpretation of this is that the word "hate" has been translated incorrectly from the original Greek. It should mean "love less" therefore you should love no one more than Jesus, as explained here:
[The subject here is the word for hate, which is the Greek miseo. One Skeptic is typical of critics when he writes:
Most Christians feel obligated to soften the face meaning of the word 'hate' to something like 'love less than me,' even though the Greek word miseo means 'hate.'
In line with this comment, Skeptics will stress the meaning of the word "hate" and insist that the word must be read literally, and that Jesus is truly preaching hate. But in fact, the "softening" is correct to do -- and is perfectly in line with the context of the ancient world, and the Jewish culture in particular.]
Many scholars, however, agree the literal translation is accurate. In fact, the word misandry (hatred of men) comes from the Greek miseo (miséο, “to hate”) + andres (anér-andros, “man”). But ok, we'll go with the "love them less" theory.
So we then get to the second reason for why I like this verse. It shows how egotistical Christ can be. Reminds me of an obsessed stalker-like boyfriend. In romantic relationships you can chose to say "fuck off" and even obtain a restraining order from such characters.
In religion we just pray and worship more, because Jesus was God and therefore perfect and more deserving than anything we know of.
Baa Baaaaa
Luke 14:25-27
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
This Bible passage impresses me for two reasons. One, the literal translation is pretty solid. Hate everyone you know, including yourself, or else you can't be my friend.
Nice.
So the Christian interpretation of this is that the word "hate" has been translated incorrectly from the original Greek. It should mean "love less" therefore you should love no one more than Jesus, as explained here:
[The subject here is the word for hate, which is the Greek miseo. One Skeptic is typical of critics when he writes:
Most Christians feel obligated to soften the face meaning of the word 'hate' to something like 'love less than me,' even though the Greek word miseo means 'hate.'
In line with this comment, Skeptics will stress the meaning of the word "hate" and insist that the word must be read literally, and that Jesus is truly preaching hate. But in fact, the "softening" is correct to do -- and is perfectly in line with the context of the ancient world, and the Jewish culture in particular.]
Many scholars, however, agree the literal translation is accurate. In fact, the word misandry (hatred of men) comes from the Greek miseo (miséο, “to hate”) + andres (anér-andros, “man”). But ok, we'll go with the "love them less" theory.
So we then get to the second reason for why I like this verse. It shows how egotistical Christ can be. Reminds me of an obsessed stalker-like boyfriend. In romantic relationships you can chose to say "fuck off" and even obtain a restraining order from such characters.
In religion we just pray and worship more, because Jesus was God and therefore perfect and more deserving than anything we know of.
Baa Baaaaa
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by luis on -
you quoted mathew 23:9 out of context bro,jesus in those verses is talking about "religous titles" not your" actual "father he was teaching against taking a religous title for yourself like rabbi,father,master(please read surrounding verses) i have answers for your other scriptures but not alot of time right now talk to you soonPEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Nelson on -
yeah, that's paralleled in Matthew 19:28-29
Pauline Christianity, the version of Christianity that survived the debates between different sects in the early evolution of the religion, holds that Jesus taught a life ethic, he came to tell his followers how to live in order to be saved and to sacrifice himself in order that his followers might be saved if they lived according to his teachings. for Paul it all boiled down to simply having faith in Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross.
trouble is that's not what the earliest followers of Jesus understood and that's certainly not what Jesus himself taught.
Jesus never taught a life ethic but rather a sort of penitential path. the following of that path was immediately important because, as Jesus proclaimed, the Cosmic Judge, called the Son of Man, was soon to come and if you did not follow that path you would be destroyed along with those in power, the rich, the persecutors, the rulers of the Evil Age.
see, Jesus was an apocalypticist. he among many others believed that the current age was an evil age and that soon to come would be the Son of Man who would judge everyone, destroy those in power and those people allied with those in power, and bring about the new age ruled by god. not only was the Son of Man coming but he was coming soon. Jesus tells his disciples that many of them will not have died before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 16:28, Luke 9:27)
when this is properly understood everything Jesus said makes perfect sense. consider that if you were told that the Son of Man was coming immediately (and assuming you believed that to be the truth of course) and that you would be destroyed if you didn't follow the path to righteousness and repent of your sins, if you didn't really love your neighbor as yourself- not just figuratively but literally- you would be destroyed, of what consequence would anything else be when compared to making sure you did indeed follow Jesus' teachings? Jesus isn't saying that he personally is more important than anyone's family members he's saying that nothing is more important than following the path to righteousness in order to get yourself right with god before the Son of Man comes. Jesus is saying that nothing else matters but that. not even family is important compared to this.
consider that as a life ethic many of the things he says are ludicrous but in the context of the coming judgment they make perfect sense when you understand his belief in the coming judgment.
*giving up all your earthly material possessions- Jesus repeatedly teaches that the rich will not see the Kingdom of God, the new age, because to be rich in material possessions is not loving your neighbor as yourself. the solution is to give up all your material possessions. (Matthew 19:21-24, Matthew 6:19-24, Matthew 13:22, Luke 18:22-23, Luke 14:33)
*if someone struck you across the face you should turn to them the other cheek as well- again, you simply do not strike someone back if they strike you because to do so is failing to love your neighbor as you love yourself. strike someone back when they've struck you and you risk your righteousness and your place in the Kingdom. (Luke 6:29)
*if someone asked for your jacket you should give them the shirt off your back as well- to be truly righteous, to firmly secure your place in the coming Kingdom, you can't just give someone your cloak when asked for it but you must give them your shirt off your back. in a broader metaphorical sense this applies to anything you own. there should be no limit to what you will give to another if asked. that following the path would result in your own personal financial poverty was absolutely unimportant. (Luke 6:29)
poor, meek, merciful, pure in heart, hungry, thirsty, persecuted, insulted, looked down upon by society, slandered... if you are these things then you truly love your neighbor as yourself, you are righteous, your place in the coming Kingdom is secure. alternately if you are rich, well fed, comfortable, if you laugh, and if men speak well of you then you can expect to be destroyed when the Cosmic Judge comes. (Matthew 5:1-12, Luke 6:20-36)
nothing is more important than the coming judgment. not your life, not your body, not questions of what will you eat or what you will wear; don't worry about tomorrow (Matthew 6:25-34)- indeed, if your father dies and you want to take temporary leave to go bury him Jesus' answer is: let the dead bury their own dead! (Luke 9:59-62)
of course Christians won't agree with any of this, they'll say that i'm taking verses out of context and using my own interpretation. but i'm not doing that at all. the application of historical-critical methodology designed to weed out the mythologizing and Paulizing that went on later and find Jesus' actual teachings is what produces this "interpretation." it is in fact the consensus of historical scholarship and has been for more than a hundred years. it is the same methodology that is applied to any ancient document when trying to weed out the mythologizing and symbolism from the historical reality.
to be sure i'm not saying that the verse is all warm and fuzzy and it certainly doesn't exhort anyone to strong family values but when you understand what Jesus really taught it's not as disgusting as it appears to be. what's more disgusting is how, in light of their own theology, Christians can defend the passage. even if we accept their "love less" translation it's still Jesus... doing what really?- holding a person's salvation hostage in order to force them to love him more than they do their own family? in fact, if we accept the traditional Christian interpretation the verse casts quite an ugly light on Jesus whereas if you understand the historical reality it's far less abhorrent, even understandable to a certain extent.
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Permalink Reply by luis on
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when jesus said you that to follow him you must hate everyone but him(loose paraphrase) he meant ,compared to the love you have for him it will be like you're hating everyone else, of course he didnt really mean to hate people he's using speech that would seperate the "men from the boys" so to speak,as to who's going to be a real follower,jesus sometimes would use certain types of speech to see who's going to be a real follower by saying things that got peoples attention,like when he said "if your eye offends you pluck it out" well he didnt really mean to actually pluck it out because i can pluck both my eyes out and still sin by recalling lustful thoughtsin my mind,so am i supposed to pluck out my brain?of course not!!!!!!!!!!!! what i believe he meant in the latter verse is :Get rid of any influence/situation etc....that causesyou to sin no matter what the cost. well thank you for your opinion and i look forward to reply respectfullyto more opinions on this site PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
That is always an issue. What do you take literally and what do you take metaphorically? Luckily I don't worry too much as I view it all as fiction, but it is a very real debate between apologetics and others.
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Permalink Reply by Nelson on
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that's easy. if it supports their preconceived notion of what their faith is and who Jesus was then the text is to be taken literally. if, on the other hand, a literal reading of the text stands against those preconceptions then it is to be taken metaphorically and interpreted.
that Jesus taught that his followers should hate their families in order to properly follow him is impossible according to their preconception of who Jesus was and so it must be explained away through interpretation.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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I'm not sure how to interpret your post. But it looks like you metaphorically love Jesus.
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