This idea can have logic and great value even for an atheist.
Not that long ago I offered for some angry people to kick my head in, to prove a point about how men should treat women (i.e. don't bully them). (I guess they didn't have the heart to do it.)
Among the many interpretations which can be placed on the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus, we can say this:
Jesus went to his death willingly - in that he knew it was going to happen, and didn't run away, when he could have done - in order to prove and illustrate a point. That point was his life's work (well, the last 3 years'). One of his main lessons was that we can all be given the chance for our sins to be forgiven, provided we earn it and do the necessary real work involved. Provided we go to our Crucifixion willingly. If he can get himself crucified, we should be up to saying sorry and putting things right when we have to. We should be humble enough to suffer for what we have done. We should be humble enough to let something go instead of escalating to some kind of blood feud.
He also forgave the people who were crucifying him.
By dramatically illustrating the idea that God can forgive our sins, will always give us a second chance to make good: life became possible, life became good, life became fruitful. Instead of nasty, brutish and short. Hence the Resurrection.
All religions claim their religion is the best of them all... O.o
but those other people were not well-known spiritual crusaders like he was. They were pretty much ordinary criminals or terrorists or suchlike.
How on earth could you know that? How could you know anything at all about anyone who was crucified? This is the problem, Simon. You make statements like this, without a shred of supporting fact. In the light of the number of people who are assumed to have been crucified, some of them were statistically inevitable to have been innocent. Whose sins did they die for? If you concede that Jesus was not a god incarnated on earth, there is no difference between him and the other victims.
Further, you apparently know what Jesus was up to during his last three years, even though his existence is still unsupported by any evidence. Doesn't it puzzle you what he might have been up to during the thirty or so years before this "last 3 years"?
The Jesus story is shot full of holes, riddled with discrepancies, and has been manipulated by a variety of storytellers, long after any actual "events" could have taken place. It would be a seriously shaky structure for any atheistic philosophy to be built around.
"Doesn't it puzzle you what he might have been up to during the thirty or so years before this "last 3 years"?"
This is a very interesting question. How did he end up like that, at the age of 30? I have a theory that he started out as a sinner, a deranged fucking scumbag. That's why he was so big on forgiveness and taking care of the outcasts and lost sheep.
"It would be a seriously shaky structure for any atheistic philosophy to be built around."
I'm not building the philosophy around him - far from it. He's just the poster child for it. He left all these wonderful sayings, epigrams and stories after all. There are plenty of other people who can illustrate it though. I'm finding that most of it can be put together with a judicious use of other people's quotes.
In case I may have neglected to mention this, an anonymous author, writing 30-100 years after the alleged event, who was never there, basing his story entirely on hearsay and his imagination, "left all these wonderful sayings, epigrams and stories after all"
@ All the Wordsmiths:
I once saw a Catholic website which stated that Christianity is the best religion, different from the rest, because it has Jesus. This is a bold claim, perhaps it's somewhat bad manners, but actually, they have a good point.. All it means is that the other religions need to respect Jesus as well, make him their own, and since he was about saving mankind, he would have welcomed it.
Is this not the meaning of "hubris"?
Need I remind you yet again that you're basing your opinion on the words of an anonymous author, writing 30-100 years after the alleged event, who was never there, and is basing his story entirely on hearsay and his imagination?
"and since he was about saving mankind, he would have welcomed it."
Why do we need to be saved? Saved from what? With No God, probably no life after death. So, teachings on how to live now?
Jebus told people to give all their money away and follow him, I have not seen many doing that, very bad advice if you ask me. The other big one was, doing good to your enemies, not many doing that either. Jebus says this and he is sending most people to hell. I say he needs to practice what he preached.
I forgive people all the time, and I do not ask everyone else to kiss my ass because I have. Nor do I tell them I will torture them forever if they do not kiss my ass!
Are you for real Simon?
"Why do we need to be saved? Saved from what?"
We do tend to be pretty fucked a lot of the time.
"he was exposing the intolerance, and bureaucratic nonsense of humanity, testing if people had empathy and spare his life... obviously they failed the test,lacked empathy and he was crucified, "
I think this is exactly the point. He forgave those people for what they did. He went to his death willingly, pretty much to prove a point, and he was probably always aware that it would end that way, yet he didn't avoid it.
If he could forgive that treatment, then that gives us the example that we should consider forgiving people wherever possible.
But no one even saw or understood wtf he was doing, besides some people thought he was crazy , and they dont even know or understand empathy. First of all no one has the right to take someone else s life, because their life is no better, since we all screwed up somewhere in our lives, its just that some people done more harm than others. But to be honest you dont need religion to understand empathy, compassion and understanding, in fact logic and reason are often keypoints to understand someone, by asking youself the questions, "why did they do it", and thinking to make sense. When you look at crimes 99% of them are done by a reason.
Not to mention that previously Simon said that the point was forgiveness given to those who earn it (as opposed to just carte blanche forgiveness without the person doing anything to earn that forgiveness), but here he's talking about Jesus forgiving people who did not earn that forgiveness. Make up your mind, Simon.