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Permalink Reply by Patrick Gray on August 26, 2011 at 8:50pm

It's hilarious that you chastise this girl as close minded.  You tout that atheists are open minded and any individual can believe what they want....  except in a God.   Then they must change for you.  Hilarious at best, hypocritical at worst.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cross on August 26, 2011 at 11:35pm

Thank you for chiming in Patrick...I certainly appreciate your point of view, and you have a point. Although It's not that i am aiming to chastise her, i just wish she would as least CONSIDER listening to another point of view. This is where being closeminded comes into play. I am very open minded in listening to what she believes, as well as studying what she believes, though i usually find contradictions and bias, in most of the material. I'm not asking her to "convert" to what i believe, because i will not be doing that either. I just feel that it is very arrogant and closeminded to say that another side of the coin is NOT POSSIBLE.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Gray on August 27, 2011 at 12:19am

But, you say she was JW when you met her. Why now do you feel it's necessary to get her to understand your "facts"? Isn't she free to choose how she wants to live her life? To say that you aren't trying to convert her to your way of thinking isn't intellectually honest. At the very minimum you are asking her to ignore her beliefs to satisfy your need to help her understand your "facts".

This is where I disagree with atheist as a fundamental point. You claim to be free thinkers and claim to allow any one to think the way they want... Except when they choose to believe in a God. Then they must be shown the "facts".

Just food for thought.... Why would a man date a die hard lesbian? Because he thinks that he can change her.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cross on August 27, 2011 at 12:38am

And just the same she KNEW i'm was an atheist, when i first met her, and i let her know that several times, because religious people always try and convert us. JW's can be one of the most proselytizing groups, and i see her gradually attempting to do this to me. She should understand my side of the coin, just as i understand hers. In NO WAY am i asking her to "ignore" her beliefs. To simplify it, on her side, i feel out of a lack of proof there SHOULD be an admission that there is a CHANCE that there is no god; as WELL as my admission that, hey I may be wrong and there is a chance there could be. But on my side, through all of my reading, research, and critical thinking, the proof that there is NOT outweighs any proof that there is, plain and simple. Most religious people REFUSE to admit that there is a chance they could be wrong and there is no god, out of FEAR of blasphemy. You don't have to "ignore" your beleifs to see the other point of view. I don't believe in it, but i will read the Bible to get an understanding of what the relgious beleifs are; in NO WAY does that mean i am ignoring my beleifs.

You have it misconstrued about us saying "we have to show them the facts." That is not AT ALL how it happens in MOST cases of debate. The religious people are the ones who feel they need to show us their "proof", when in fact their "proof" is grossly misinterpreted, biased, illogical, and can be dismantled by hard FACTS.

 

That food for thought of yours is comparing apples and oranges, because the woman is NOT even attracted to the man iin your scenario. In my case we are naturally attracted to one another. People cannot help who they fall in love with, and my case proves this, as WELL as my girl who is not even supposed to be ASSOCIATING herself with what i am thought of by her peers(JWs) as an apostate, or non-believer, and i am going to "hell", LOL!

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Permalink Reply by Garrett Taffer on August 27, 2011 at 2:44am

Yes, see, that's what occurred with me. We fell in love, we were attracted to each other, we wanted kids, and we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with each other. We actually ignored our religious beliefs. We told the man-made guidelines to stuff it, and we got married. Oh and Kevin, shame on you. You know that JW's don't believe in hell or eternal damnation! You either get resurrected or you die forever and become compost. Other things JW's believe in: We are all supposed to be connected. Dinasaours did NOT live with humans, and the Earth may very well be over 4 billions years old. See? You're already half way in converting her to an Athee or Agee!

 

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cross on August 27, 2011 at 2:49am

COOL! an YES you're right! shame on me! that was a slip up, speaking about JW's and hell in the same conversation! LOL! i HAVE brought up the earth being around 4 billion years old, but we haven't gotten to the Dinosaur subject yet...

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cross on August 27, 2011 at 2:51am

Another quick question...and maybe we should start another discussion; But what did you think Bill Maher's documentary, "Religulous"?

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Permalink Reply by Garrett Taffer on August 27, 2011 at 3:10am

Religulous was a good movie. Maher is a comedian and television host, and yet many questions he asked weren't there just for comedy's sake. They were tough questions and tough commentaries, all the while mocking religion. It's not a good watch for someone who is deeply religious, although, staying in topic, if you do plan to show it to a JW, she will probably sit there and nod in agreement with the issues it brings forth. I bet you she will laugh too.

Show it to her.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cross on August 27, 2011 at 3:15am

I agree. I definitely will show it to her, Bill is HILARIOUS, i love that dude...I know she'll nod in agreement about many things because he is mostly ridiculing what JW's call "Christendom"... Great movie tho...

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Permalink Reply by Rick on August 27, 2011 at 2:20pm

@Patrick: Is it so difficult to understand that religion-lite can be easier to deal with than one who is balls-deep in it?

 

Believers can believe in whatever fairytale they wish. Atheists have no issue with that, until they try to impose those beliefs on not only us, but followers of other faiths as well.

 

I’m curious as to why you put facts in quotations. Are you suggesting that the reasoning we use that is based in biology, physics, chemistry, astronomy, history, etc. is not factual? Are you saying that when we cite scripture that directly contradicts other scripture and religious teachings, this is not based in fact?

 

A man wouldn’t date a diehard lesbian. That makes no sense whatsoever. Dating requires active participation from both parties and a die-hard lesbian would have nothing to do with a man. To use your analogy to help you better understand his situation: he started dating this girl when she was bi-sexual and through the course of the relationship, she has changed to a die-hard lesbian.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cross on August 27, 2011 at 4:21pm

Thank you for your reply @Rick, you're SO on point!!!

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Gray on September 2, 2011 at 10:42pm

"facts" in this case are nit facts but conclusion based on the interpretation of fact. Kevin has come to a conclusion base on his study of fact. He can not in fact prove that there is no God. Just like this young lady can not factually prove God exists through her belief in the faith as described by the JWs

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